pet ferrets or proper working ferrets

[Leeview 791]

OK I and a few other posters that do work their ferrets with a passion have already stated that best worker to the best worker is the way to breed to get workers so why does nt that answer your point?

Can you explain selective breeding and how it works to me?

Y.I.S Leeview

 

Because you reckon you get the effect from one generation. Most people breed for several generations to get the standard they want.

 

Yes, I can explain how selective breeding works. However, you've not accepted anything I've told you about genetics up to now, so I'm not convinced it's worth the effort.

 

Try Wikipedia.

Where Have I said I get the "effect"from one generation? Why breed several generations? I breed one generation at a time and reproduce what I have started with workers. hands on experience of working and breeding ferrets. Not reading about it on wikipeadia. you dont breed ferrets, you dont work ferrets but you try to tell myself about genetics that you have read about on wikipedia which is after only peoples published opinions is it not?

Y.I.S Leeview

[droid 11]

you try to tell myself about genetics that you have read about on wikipedia which is after only peoples published opinions is it not?

Y.I.S Leeview

 

Wikipedia may well be 'people's opinions'.

 

But I didn't learn my genetics from Wikipedia, I learned it from the people that do original research into the subject.

 

I reccommended Wikipedia to you for the reasons stated in my last post.

[whin 463]

why on this working ferret chanel do we here genetics etc ferrets were bred to work and keep men in meat and entertain and do pest control what is genetics got to do about it ,as we all no selective breeding of good worker to goood worker and there, kin works or you wouldnt do it ben proven so many times ,but if youdont keep the goood worker to good worker it will diminish just like the dog game

[Leeview 791]

Wikipedia may well be 'people's opinions'.

 

But I didn't learn my genetics from Wikipedia, I learned it from the people that do original research into the subject.

 

I reccommended Wikipedia to you for the reasons stated in my last post.

 

 

"You learned it from people that do original research into the subject" again read a book or they actually told you face to face? You've had ferrets as pets for 5-6yrs? never worked them but feel justified to preach how we are wrong to suggest that by breeding worker to worker we will end up with workers the members on here are doing exactly that but this does nt come up to your theories so we're all wrong and your right?

Well you crack on with your reading and theories and when (if) you do come up with some startling evidence to prove myself wrong I'll try it by breeding your theory providing you take the kits that dont make the grade Till then stick to subjects you have experience of,ie tropical fish

Y.I.S Leeview

[droid 11]

"You learned it from people that do original research into the subject" again read a book or they actually told you face to face? You've had ferrets as pets for 5-6yrs? never worked them but feel justified to preach how we are wrong to suggest that by breeding worker to worker we will end up with workers the members on here are doing exactly that but this does nt come up to your theories so we're all wrong and your right?

Well you crack on with your reading and theories and when (if) you do come up with some startling evidence to prove myself wrong I'll try it by breeding your theory providing you take the kits that dont make the grade Till then stick to subjects you have experience of,ie tropical fish

Y.I.S Leeview

 

It's difficult to seriously debate with someone who seems to think that 'books' are the source of all evil, but i'm a bit of a stubborn bugger, so I'll try.

 

 

'Told face to face'....yes I was.

 

'read it in books'....not 'books', scientific journals. These contain the methods and conclusions of the original research. In order to be published in a scientific journal the work has to be 'peer reviewed' by other scientists who might not neccessarily agree with the writer.

 

I didn't say, and never have, that breeding 'worker to worker' you don't get workers. I said that I couldn't see any evidence that working ability was inherited. As I stated earlier, you'd need a blind test to check that one out.

 

I await your next hilarious example of misunderstanding with interest.

Edited November 12, 2009 by droid

[TOMO 27,579]

i see what driod is getting at and you may have a point , there may be no Genetic reason why working ability is inhereted. i wouldn't know as i have no scientific background.

 

the thing is droid lots of us chaps that have worked ferrets or dogs find certain WORKING charactoristics that turn up generation after generation, and your right i have no expanation for this, and to be honest im not that bothered so long as the stock is healthy and WORKS they way i expect.

[andy s410c 61]

to be honest im not that bothered so long as the stock is healthy and WORKS they way i expect.

Nail on the head for me Tomo...everyone has their own theories,preferences in working character..basically this discussion is like a piece of string......ENDLESS

[droid 11]

i see what driod is getting at and you may have a point , there may be no Genetic reason why working ability is inhereted. i wouldn't know as i have no scientific background.

 

the thing is droid lots of us chaps that have worked ferrets or dogs find certain WORKING charactoristics that turn up generation after generation, and your right i have no expanation for this, and to be honest im not that bothered so long as the stock is healthy and WORKS they way i expect.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

And it's good to see someone appreciates the difference between characteristics, which can be inherited, and ability which isn't. What breeding 'worker to worker' does is concentrate those characteristics. There'll still be a range of abilities in the offspring.

[whin 463]

always there are a range of capabilities in workers so you keep the good ones and the rest put them away or give them away to less demandin homes ,simple as its not a formula its good stockmanship which doesnt come out of abook it comes out of the feild of practice and common sense on breeding good dogs ferrrets horses,

[ferret lady 73]

Droid is correct in saying that there is no such thing as a "working gene." However, all the various mental and emotional traits which are inherited will determine what type of worker a ferret will (or won't) be. Training and environment enter into it as well, but cannot develop the traits which are not there to begin with or may not be able to override an unfortunate combination of traits which predispose the ferret to hunt (or not hunt) in a particular manner. I don't doubt that hunting instinct can be bred out of ferrets just as it's been bred out of many breeds of dogs where the various hunting instincts were considered a detriment.

 

Breeding a good worker to a good worker will increase the probability that more of the offspring will inherit the desired traits in the correct combination. Linebreeding and inbreeding on the best workers is the quickest way to build a strain of ferrets which will work as the ferreter desires, as it increases the likelihood that more of the resulting kits will inherit the same mix of traits seen in their parents.

Edited November 12, 2009 by ferret lady

[whin 463]

HAVE YOU TRIED IT LADY asi have ,line breeding etc and did get a good strain but let them goand out bred to diffrent types over the years , they were good workers, but realy stop all the genetics stuff and get down to basics good worker to god worker and weed out the shit and keep it simple no need for formulas , cause if they dont work you dont breed the same twice , used to have alot of working ferrets maybe three litts a year and got good reports of who wasa doing the best , so was pretty easy to see what was worth keeping ,cheers

[droid 11]

HAVE YOU TRIED IT LADY asi have ,line breeding etc and did get a good strain but let them goand out bred to diffrent types over the years , they were good workers, but realy stop all the genetics stuff and get down to basics good worker to god worker and weed out the shit and keep it simple no need for formulas , cause if they dont work you dont breed the same twice , used to have alot of working ferrets maybe three litts a year and got good reports of who wasa doing the best , so was pretty easy to see what was worth keeping ,cheers

 

'The genetics stuff' IS the basics.

 

That's what the selective breeding that you're doing is.

[ferret lady 73]

HAVE YOU TRIED IT LADY asi have ,line breeding etc and did get a good strain but let them goand out bred to diffrent types over the years , they were good workers, but realy stop all the genetics stuff and get down to basics good worker to god worker and weed out the shit and keep it simple no need for formulas , cause if they dont work you dont breed the same twice , used to have alot of working ferrets maybe three litts a year and got good reports of who wasa doing the best , so was pretty easy to see what was worth keeping ,cheers

 

An understanding of genetics, along with knowing the various traits which are wanted and how they are inherited, takes much of the guess work out of breeding. With that knowledge, a breeder can produce what is wanted in more of the kits with fewer litters and in far less generations.

 

I have not bred a hunting line of ferrets, as I live in the US, but use linebreeding and inbreeding in my line to make sure that they maintain their natural instincts and abilities. I did have a closely bred line of Basenjis (sight and scent hounds) for almost 30 years who were excellent hunters and needed very little training to perform for their owners.

 

During those years, I also saw how easily the desired traits which make for a good hunting dog can be lost when I outcrossed to a dog whose background for generations was bred solely for pet/show. He himself had no hunting instincts and would not track or chase. He sired two litters of pups from dams who were excellent hunters, and the resulting pups were mediocre in the field at best. Needless to say, none of those pups were bred from even though some of them were good show quality and all were excellent pets.

[whin 463]

BEEN TO THE US MANY TIMES AND HAD AFEW US PEOPLE FREINDS OVER THEY HAVE SAW PROPER WORKING FERRETS AND COMMENTED THEY ARE ALOT DIFFRENT FROM WHAT YOUSE KEEP OVER THERE ,WAS GOING TO EXPORT SOME OVER BUT IT WAS COSTLY TO MAYBE GET BEAT UP WITH A SNAKE DOWN A COTTONTAIL HOLE OF GROUND ANIMAL CHEERS

[ferret lady 73]

BEEN TO THE US MANY TIMES AND HAD AFEW US PEOPLE FREINDS OVER THEY HAVE SAW PROPER WORKING FERRETS AND COMMENTED THEY ARE ALOT DIFFRENT FROM WHAT YOUSE KEEP OVER THERE ,WAS GOING TO EXPORT SOME OVER BUT IT WAS COSTLY TO MAYBE GET BEAT UP WITH A SNAKE DOWN A COTTONTAIL HOLE OF GROUND ANIMAL CHEERS

 

I don't doubt that the majority of American ferrets are vastly different from the UK ones, particularly those bred by commercial breeders and neutered very early as they do not mature physically, mentally, or emotionally. Most are bred for a "pet" personality, ie, a high nip/bite threshold, people oriented and docile personality, and a low personal flight distance threshold. That, plus the early neutering, makes for an animal which can be nip trained very easily so that they can be readily handled by anyone and kept in larger groups. Many of them also are not all that intelligent or athletic, so don't get into all the mischief that a "normal" ferret is capable of.

 

Whin, I'd be very interested in corresponding with you or anyone who breeds dark polecats from a background free of white markings and dilute colors. I'm looking to import a hob and jill with the traits I need to maintain and improve my breeding program.