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.22lr accuracy - paper punching testing


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#61 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:13 pm




I wonder what sort of life these barrels have with bullets passing through at 4000 fps.


Thats an interesting one, but probably not as bad as many may think, how often does the opportunity arise to head shoot a crow at 400 yards http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... ? So as long as you don't get into any rapid fire contests, and keep them clean probably not too bad!

These are not your daily, run of the mill bunny bashing tools! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


I wonder what sort of life these barrels have with bullets passing through at 4000 fps.


Thats an interesting one, but probably not as bad as many may think, how often does the opportunity arise to head shoot a crow at 400 yards http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... ? So as long as you don't get into any rapid fire contests, and keep them clean probably not too bad!

These are not your daily, run of the mill bunny bashing tools! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
For sure,
I'd love to get my hands on the 17 and see how it fared on targets, flat as a pancake al bet.
Could be a cost effective foxing tool?



I've never owned a .17CF or a .204, but I do have first hand experience with the .204.

They have their uses, all calibres do, but "personally" I see them as relatively limited.
http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


how so?
price to run?
high power?
noise?

whats the down side.

is it just best to get a hmr and be done with it

#62 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:16 pm



I wonder what sort of life these barrels have with bullets passing through at 4000 fps.


Thats an interesting one, but probably not as bad as many may think, how often does the opportunity arise to head shoot a crow at 400 yards http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... ? So as long as you don't get into any rapid fire contests, and keep them clean probably not too bad!

These are not your daily, run of the mill bunny bashing tools! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


I wonder what sort of life these barrels have with bullets passing through at 4000 fps.


Thats an interesting one, but probably not as bad as many may think, how often does the opportunity arise to head shoot a crow at 400 yards http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... ? So as long as you don't get into any rapid fire contests, and keep them clean probably not too bad!

These are not your daily, run of the mill bunny bashing tools! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
For sure,
I'd love to get my hands on the 17 and see how it fared on targets, flat as a pancake al bet.
Could be a cost effective foxing tool?
I'm digressing though.

about a year and a half ago some guy rang me to buy somthing, we got talking and he could not say enough about the .17cf. he was into his fox shooting big style. he recomended it for fox.

#63 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:26 pm

i am not a ballistics expert but do get the idea that these rimfire bullets slowing down from supersonic to subsonic can cause accuracy problems. (don't understand the science and not sure i am bother either)

but one thing is for sure becuase i live on the moor /high up (where pics were taken) its freckin cold up here in winter and the speed of sound is a fraction slower by a little bit up here!
evey time i drive up / down into town all year round the thermometre on my car always gets warmer by a degree when i go down into town and colder when i come back home!

Edited by riflehunter583, 29 January 2012 - 08:28 pm.


#64 Simonrees

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:28 pm

So whats the advantages/disadvantages of a .17cf compared to a .17rf?

#65 Deker

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:36 pm


I've never owned a .17CF or a .204, but I do have first hand experience with the .204.

They have their uses, all calibres do, but "personally" I see them as relatively limited.
http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...



how so?
price to run? Yep
high power? They are not exceptionally powerful, just relatively powerful for the projectile size
noise? Yes, but many CF are noisy

whats the down side.

Generalisations
Keeping them sweet, cleaning is essential, ammo costs are silly, they are ammo fussy, so home brews are often the way, you need a LONG barrel to get the best, so they are not the easiest field tools to carry/use, and they are designed essentially for long range varmint use, not something I need to do too often! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

is it just best to get a HMR and be done with it
You can't really compare a HMR to a .17CF or a .204, they are somewhat different, but personally I find a HMR far more versatile.
I have 8 rifles on my FAC, they all get used, and if I needed a .17CF or .204 I would get one, but I don't. Interestingly though, there is arguably a gap waiting for these between my .22 WMR and .223, but I just haven't found it a problem, or I would have bought one. Other people most certainly do like them, "need" them, and get on well with them, but I think even they will admit they are a pretty small band! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


#66 Deker

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:47 pm

about a year and a half ago some guy rang me to buy somthing, we got talking and he could not say enough about the .17cf. he was into his fox shooting big style. he recomended it for fox.


Long range, medium range, short range, round the stables and barns and farmhouse, around the horses/cattle/sheep?

Like I say the .17 CF/.204 have their uses, so does the .22lr, HMR, WMR, Hornet, .222, 223, 22-250, .243 etc etc on fox, and many will argue that some of these are even more useful/versatile for Charlie, etc!

You need to look at your quarry, land, ability, circumstances, etc and evaluate everything available, and then buy the best percieved tool for the job, for some that will be a .17CF/.204! :thumbs:

#67 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:00 pm


about a year and a half ago some guy rang me to buy somthing, we got talking and he could not say enough about the .17cf. he was into his fox shooting big style. he recomended it for fox.


Long range, medium range, short range, round the stables and barns and farmhouse, around the horses/cattle/sheep?

Like I say the .17 CF/.204 have their uses, so does the .22lr, HMR, WMR, Hornet, .222, 223, 22-250, .243 etc etc on fox, and many will argue that some of these are even more useful/versatile for Charlie, etc!

You need to look at your quarry, land, ability, circumstances, etc and evaluate everything available, and then buy the best percieved tool for the job, for some that will be a .17CF/.204! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

thanks for the replys. think i'm gonna get a .17 hmr they seem like a very useful tool for my needs. just got to wait for my lcoal force bet it will be 7-8 weeks now. in the mean time i am sure i will be able to improve on these groups. i had a few 3/4 inch groups 130 y with the airgun 2 years ago so want to redo this again with the air gun and do it with the rimmy if possible.

#68 thursodog

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:13 pm

I really enjoy squirting away at bunnies and crows with my hmr.
I've just gotten a small 50 acre perm 2 mins from the hoose which has a duck pond smack bang in the middle with high banks all round.
I've seen 2 fox's at night but only had the air rifle at the time, so i'm now thinking in setting up a small hide and baiting up so i might have a chance at popping them with the hmr as Deker does.
I'll report the outcome.

Atb Chris.

#69 matt_hooks

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:18 pm

Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees © per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)

#70 thursodog

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:28 pm

Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)

Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)

Holy Einsteins batman, ok dokes pal :hmm: :blink: :hmm: :blink: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: Cheers

#71 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:44 pm

I really enjoy squirting away at bunnies and crows with my hmr.
I've just gotten a small 50 acre perm 2 mins from the hoose which has a duck pond smack bang in the middle with high banks all round.
I've seen 2 fox's at night but only had the air rifle at the time, so i'm now thinking in setting up a small hide and baiting up so i might have a chance at popping them with the hmr as Deker does.
I'll report the outcome.

Atb Chris.


hi chris where abouts are you based. sounds like a nice little shoot you got. my mate had a shoot neat to a resavouir which he eventually lost. the water made the wildlife more abundant. good sport for his shotgun and rifle. also handy being so close. my crow shoot is 500 acres but its a bit of a drive away.

#72 riflehunter583

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:48 pm

Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees © per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)


i am about 1000 feet above sea level here approx.
alot of the subs i fire seems to start to crack a little at my place.
but having just looked it up its to do with temp mainly and not sea level.

Edited by riflehunter583, 30 January 2012 - 12:36 am.


#73 thursodog

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:12 am


I really enjoy squirting away at bunnies and crows with my hmr.
I've just gotten a small 50 acre perm 2 mins from the hoose which has a duck pond smack bang in the middle with high banks all round.
I've seen 2 fox's at night but only had the air rifle at the time, so i'm now thinking in setting up a small hide and baiting up so i might have a chance at popping them with the hmr as Deker does.
I'll report the outcome.

Atb Chris.


hi chris where abouts are you based. sounds like a nice little shoot you got. my mate had a shoot neat to a resavouir which he eventually lost. the water made the wildlife more abundant. good sport for his shotgun and rifle. also handy being so close. my crow shoot is 500 acres but its a bit of a drive away.

Hello there,
I'm based in the Northeast of Scotland, its a lovely little perm with loads of backstops and has plenty of rabbit, crow, pigeon, fox and deer.
Its sometimes has the odd visiting duck but unfortunately the pond has been frozen since xmas so havn't seen any since mid December.
Yeah its very handy considering my other perms are a 45 minute drive from the hoose.

Atb Chris.

#74 tegater

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:48 am


Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees © per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)


i am about 1000 feet above sea level here approx.
alot of the subs i fire seems to start to crack a little at my place.
but having just looked it up its to do with temp mainly and not sea level.

Just get out there and do it, instead of working out what changes in temp etc, do to the trajectory when paper punching.

It might be more important if you were talking about many hundreds of yards. If I see a fox, crow, rabbit, maggie etc the only thing that concerns me is the range and wind speed, along with all the safety issues of backstop. Oblique winds are far more likely to raise or drop your bullet over the distances you shoot at.
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#75 Deker

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:21 am


Transonic is not "0.8 to 1.2" Mach. It has no fixed meaning. Transonic flow around a body is defined as the range of speeds where air flow is a mixture of subsonic and supersonic. A well designed aerofoil (or bullet) might only be "transonic" between .95 and 1.05 Mach.

As for the one degree difference in temperature, the standard atmospheric model has a (dry, adiabatic) lapse rate of 3 degrees © per 1000 feet. So your 1 degree drop in temp equates to about 333 feet. As it relates to the speed of sound, a 20 degree difference (between 0 degrees C and 20 degrees C) equates to a difference of about 12 m/s (36 fps) so one degree in that range would approximate to 1.8 fps difference in speed of sound (assuming linearity, which is reasonable at that small an interval)


i am about 1000 feet above sea level here approx.
alot of the subs i fire seems to start to crack a little at my place.
but having just looked it up its to do with temp mainly and not sea level.


There are many factors that could effect it, but unless height/temperatures are Extreme then they will have negligeable effect, most manufacturers subs are designed to perform somewhat below the speed of sound. My first suggestion would be quality control, it is not at all uncommon for a box of subs to have one or two fast ones, and it the case of my last box of Remington subs it was common to have some slow ones that just went phut.

Particularly damp atmospherics or foggy weather can also produce some interesting noises with bullets!

Edited by Deker, 30 January 2012 - 09:24 am.



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