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Deer management groups??


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#16 shootlodge

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:16 pm

Personally mixing with other like minded intrested people is a great asset to the managemnt of the animal, keeping the deer healthy , happy & correctly culled , & not shot out . Also the saftey & experience of person (s) in the group who may have years of intrest is passed on, as well as the great days out, on the challenge of the stalk, within a managed group.

Its the getting on a level headed balance with like minded people, who have NO snobery issues or boasts to prove , that keeps it a comfertable & jealous free sport. That is the hard bit !! :laugh:

#17 CWY308

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:26 pm

DMG's are an option for dealing with deer professionally and to gain a unified voice with the organisations (or stakeholders as the knobs call them). All members are insured when they join and are asked to start the DMQ process. There is also a constitution that is signed up to. You cannot please everyone and a lot of work and administration goes into the forms and renewals, setting up meetings and assessments. The phone calls are another labour intensive part of the task.
Nothing is perfect and it is very early doors but if you dont dance to the tune that SNH and FC are playing you cannot have a say in what is being proposed. Communication must be ongoing.
I have spent many years in syndicates, some good and some not so good but if the DMG is asked to intervene on a plantation it is because there is damage being done by the deer.
This is NOT deer stalking. Sometimes it can be culling and you need to put in the hours to reduce the damage or when they assess it you will get bumped and loose your credibility.

Like I say early days and not a stalking club.

Edited by CWY308, 12 January 2012 - 09:26 pm.


#18 Caprelous

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:55 pm

Stuart we have meetings twice a year and a web site conntact any one can enquire but i cannot pass out other members details that would not be correct. We are area specific so if some one wanted to come along they would need to be from the south lanarkshire area or with in a 10 k boundry over lap.


Interesting that David

So in other words what your saying, correct me if i am wrong here.
A prospective candidate has to live within your certain catchment area with a 10k overlap of your base is that correct?

He also has no means of finding out other than whats told him by the committee members etc if he will even shoot any deer ,
I read it that if he joins such an org he joins blind in hope that he will be instructed to participate in deer control should there be a need by the discretion of the committeee.

What happens if he did join such an organizastion and there wasnt any participation through lack of instruction from clients dos the proposed interested party get his money back through default?

It all seems somewhat a little vague to me and paying for something that might not happen.

At least with a syndication it should be all up front and transparent for a would be syndicate member to see what hes paying his money for.

Just like to say these DMG are not for me its all to vague for my liking, still it may suit some.

Stu

Edited by Caprelous, 13 January 2012 - 03:57 pm.


#19 wireviz

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:25 pm

You see Stuart you don't understand because this works in a different way. You join the group of deer stalkers from your own area.If you live in or around south lanarkshire like i do you join the SLDG if you live in West Lothian then you join that group and so on. The cost of joining the group has got nothing to do with shooting deer it puts you in a place were you can meet like minded people. The cost only covers you so that we can stay in an organisation to issue insurance. SLDG cost is £35 normally the cost of a pour syndicate place with lev 2 etc etc is 500+. If any members wants to be part of a syndicate and a few are they are welcome if they like to take a stroll and shoot a few then a wee local farm will be made available. But if you have all your qualifications and an opportunity comes up then you will get a chance at deer control or crop protection. We run Lev one courses at cost £90 through Barony collage but i do need to sit with AT and get a wee drink the night before but hey i can live with that. We also help with Lev 2 and have had a few study day with SNH staff. The next one will be at our next meeting and will cover the sensitive subject of Urban Deer and there management.
Today i took a member of the Deer Group out to look at his first bit of ground The chap has just finished his lev 2 DMQ it is our deer group standard for getting on to deer group ground. Craig has worked hard and never moaned over the past two years while working towards his lev two. He was taken round his new area and given a chance to take it on or not as he seemed fit. Sadly there is a charge for this bit of ground but we do try and make it as cheap as possible cost only. £105 for twelve months but if vulnerable ground comes up he will be given first option on it. Deer Groups working at there best and a real positive for others to follow.


Posted Image

Posted Image

PERI URBAN DEER JUST AS A THROW IN MAKEING SURE WE KEEP EVERY THING SAFE AND MAKE SURE WE ARE AWARE OF OUR SURROUNDINGS AT ALL TIMES

Posted Image

#20 Caprelous

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:48 pm

You see Stuart you don't understand because this works in a different way. You join the group of deer stalkers from your own area.If you live in or around south lanarkshire like i do you join the SLDG if you live in West Lothian then you join that group and so on. The cost of joining the group has got nothing to do with shooting deer it puts you in a place were you can meet like minded people. The cost only covers you so that we can stay in an organisation to issue insurance. SLDG cost is 35 normally the cost of a pour syndicate place with lev 2 etc etc is 500+. If any members wants to be part of a syndicate and a few are they are welcome if they like to take a stroll and shoot a few then a wee local farm will be made available. But if you have all your qualifications and an opportunity comes up then you will get a chance at deer control or crop protection. We run Lev one courses at cost 90 through Barony collage but i do need to sit with AT and get a wee drink the night before but hey i can live with that. We also help with Lev 2 and have had a few study day with SNH staff. The next one will be at our next meeting and will cover the sensitive subject of Urban Deer and there management.
Today i took a member of the Deer Group out to look at his first bit of ground The chap has just finished his lev 2 DMQ it is our deer group standard for getting on to deer group ground. Craig has worked hard and never moaned over the past two years while working towards his lev two. He was taken round his new area and given a chance to take it on or not as he seemed fit. Sadly there is a charge for this bit of ground but we do try and make it as cheap as possible cost only. 105 for twelve months but if vulnerable ground comes up he will be given first option on it. Deer Groups working at there best and a real positive for others to follow.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/D...

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/D...

PERI URBAN DEER JUST AS A THROW IN MAKEING SURE WE KEEP EVERY THING SAFE AND MAKE SURE WE ARE AWARE OF OUR SURROUNDINGS AT ALL TIMES

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/D...



In that assumpsion you would be incorrect, I know how it should work but as i stated i wouldnt join one for a gold clock, still those that do must feel the rewards of being a member :D

As regards insurance well as a Life Member of B.A.S.C its not an issue with me

Edited by Caprelous, 13 January 2012 - 08:49 pm.


#21 wireviz

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:04 pm

It would be an issue because we would not accept BASC insurance it dose not cover our members for teaching and the learning of others. The members are free to vote join or leave as they please no pressure at all its a good arrangement. Down stalking at Andy's tomorrow i will have a look at your hard work in the wood old yen.

#22 foxdropper

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:06 pm

Exactly what does anyone gain from being part of a group of any sort.If a landowner has problems they know who to contact or will know someone that does . The whole idea smacks of controlling those who stalk and not the deer.You lads north of the border have really made a rod for your own backs and no mistake .You talk about a non profit organisation but then write about a joining fee .The reason there are too many deer in Scotland is because your all too busy at meetings and not out in the woods where the work is .Get back to how it was FFS,no dmq's just stalking pure and simple .

#23 Caprelous

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:16 pm

Exactly what does anyone gain from being part of a group of any sort.If a landowner has problems they know who to contact or will know someone that does . The whole idea smacks of controlling those who stalk and not the deer.You lads north of the border have really made a rod for your own backs and no mistake .You talk about a non profit organisation but then write about a joining fee .The reason there are too many deer in Scotland is because your all too busy at meetings and not out in the woods where the work is .Get back to how it was FFS,no dmq's just stalking pure and simple .


:laugh: well said foxy

#24 wireviz

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:08 am

Fox dropper if you had read it instead of putting up some retarded answer you would have read the joining fee cover the insurance now that is in the constitution.Sadly not all landowners know some one they can trust who is fully insured and has done all the necessary paper work to carry out deer management on there ground. Like wise not every potential deer stalker/ manager know how to get a foot up on the ladder. Stuart was with out ground and loosing more spent five years chasing a lev two the person he went cap in had to was in Scotland and is also a member of the SLDG. In fact he is one of the original members. So you see it is a place for no more than the fee to join SACS you get a chance. You talk of profit FD but then suggest we have to many deer sadly that is not true in the most and ENGLAND hold the record for DVC they also include a few deaths. thetford and Cannock the worst.
Being cynical is good but being stupid is better don't you think FD.
Stuart don't you think instead of jumping on to threads like a play ground bully boy you should be up singing for your supper. :boogy:

Edited by wireviz, 14 January 2012 - 07:10 am.


#25 Caprelous

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:05 am

Fox dropper if you had read it instead of putting up some retarded answer you would have read the joining fee cover the insurance now that is in the constitution.Sadly not all landowners know some one they can trust who is fully insured and has done all the necessary paper work to carry out deer management on there ground. Like wise not every potential deer stalker/ manager know how to get a foot up on the ladder. Stuart was with out ground and loosing more spent five years chasing a lev two the person he went cap in had to was in Scotland and is also a member of the SLDG. In fact he is one of the original members. So you see it is a place for no more than the fee to join SACS you get a chance. You talk of profit FD but then suggest we have to many deer sadly that is not true in the most and ENGLAND hold the record for DVC they also include a few deaths. thetford and Cannock the worst.
Being cynical is good but being stupid is better don't you think FD.
Stuart don't you think instead of jumping on to threads like a play ground bully boy you should be up singing for your supper. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


Two defamatory statements once again i see untruthful in all respects , but i wont rise to such crap as i will only be lowering myself to gutter snipe levels . Personally my view is if anyone has a hapence of nonce about whatever your involved with, they would do well to steer well clear , aint that a fact, but those are just my personal observations which may or may not be shared by others.
Me think the lady protests to much I say Hark do I hear the whimper of someone crying WOLF
Someone hand me a barge pole will you so i can fend him off :blink:

Edited by Caprelous, 14 January 2012 - 10:39 am.


#26 wireviz

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:22 pm

Well Stuart the question was about deer groups and for some they are a good way to get into deer stalking in there local area. You don't want to be part of a group thats fine there are pros and cons in every thing we do, you get your stalking in other ways the ways i certainly do not agree with but thats just an opinion .Now lets face facts you were given stalking by a senior member of the SLDG who fully supports the deer group concept as do i. You then hand out the work you were meant to do to young Boys and then get every one to say your fantastic, Sadly you had the chance to Andrew Treadaway thank you he deserved but chose instead to take the kudos form the site members for your self . Now were is the surprise in that.
I hope your deer stalking gose well and each to his own it would be a sad day if we all agreed.

#27 Caprelous

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:49 pm

Well Stuart the question was about deer groups and for some they are a good way to get into deer stalking in there local area. You don't want to be part of a group thats fine there are pros and cons in every thing we do, you get your stalking in other ways the ways i certainly do not agree with but thats just an opinion .Now lets face facts you were given stalking by a senior member of the SLDG who fully supports the deer group concept as do i. You then hand out the work you were meant to do to young Boys and then get every one to say your fantastic, Sadly you had the chance to Andrew Treadaway thank you he deserved but chose instead to take the kudos form the site members for your self . Now were is the surprise in that.
I hope your deer stalking gose well and each to his own it would be a sad day if we all agreed.


Sadly again more untruths David.
The scheme of introducing young and inexperienced stalkers to help with both mine and Andrews lease arrangements was my idea . I suggested to Andrew the plan and he agreed on the condition that those who took us up on it helped with the overhaul wildlife plan. Its not free as participants have to supply their time and labour in creating a better environment.

I dont search for kudos as you imply and neither does Andrew but you seem hell bent in trying to discredit me or the effort that i have willingly put into it. I get the impression from your posting David your nose is out of joint .Its amazing how jealousy affects some people but dosent surprise me one bit were your concerned :yes:

Both Andrew and myself have the same aims and ideals to improve Wildlife Habitat so that the deer and other wildlife can be managed more easily, maybe we both should show each other gratitude but in all honesty we both have been busy improving the lease for the benefit of the Habitat to slap each other on the back, maybe when we can both stand back and take in whats been achieved by those taking part we can all slap each others back. One thing I am more than sure about though is that you dont have any involvement in it whatsoever and I do have Andrews re assurance to that regard and I trust him implicitly and he respects my wishes likewise I respect his, your constant banding of his name in respect to having a sly poke at me though on here i should imagine will not be going down to well with him if you know what i mean ( A lead fart comes to mind) but if you like shooting yourself in the foot please feel free to accept the pain that I am sure will go with it. :thumbs:

Our ideas are not a new concept though as my mentor as you are well aware, was the fore runner in habitat improvement and design all i am doing is putting into practice what was taught to me in those early days.

I have also included Andrew on another lease I control as at the moment we have a situation of re generation that have been hit hard by the deer so hes now one of our controllers in the same manner Pro Gratis. I should add that it was Andrew who initally approached me not the other way around as you imply as he was aware of the improvements I had carried out on this lease.
Our arrangement works fine with no monies changing hands and everyone involved benefits as well as the deer and other Wild life probably something you may find hard to understand me thinks. :hmm:

P.S Re getting boys to do the work. I think they would be offended by those comments David as most of the chaps taking part so far in the scheme have been 25+ years of age and with everything being totally upfront and transparent they know exactly whats on offer and appreciate the oportunity that Both Andrew and Myself provide, I hope you are now 100% clear on the details so there will be no further uncalled for untruths, Hope thats polite and transparent enough for you .

Cheers
Stu

Edited by Caprelous, 14 January 2012 - 05:22 pm.


#28 wireviz

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 11:45 pm

:bad: :icon_redface:

#29 Caprelous

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:03 am

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


;)

#30 Sherrif

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:31 pm

Posted by wireviz/6pointer13 January 2012 - 08:25 PM
You see Stuart you don't understand because this works in a different way. You join the group of deer stalkers from your own area.If you live in or around south lanarkshire like i do you join the SLDG if you live in West Lothian then you join that group and so on. The cost of joining the group has got nothing to do with shooting deer it puts you in a place were you can meet like minded people. The cost only covers you so that we can stay in an organisation to issue insurance. SLDG cost is £35 normally the cost of a pour syndicate place with lev 2 etc etc is 500+. If any members wants to be part of a syndicate and a few are they are welcome if they like to take a stroll and shoot a few then a wee local farm will be made available. But if you have all your qualifications and an opportunity comes up then you will get a chance at deer control or crop protection. We run Lev one courses at cost £90 through Barony collage but i do need to sit with AT and get a wee drink the night before but hey i can live with that. We also help with Lev 2 and have had a few study day with SNH staff. The next one will be at our next meeting and will cover the sensitive subject of Urban Deer and there management.
Today i took a member of the Deer Group out to look at his first bit of ground The chap has just finished his lev 2 DMQ it is our deer group standard for getting on to deer group ground. Craig has worked hard and never moaned over the past two years while working towards his lev two. He was taken round his new area and given a chance to take it on or not as he seemed fit. Sadly there is a charge for this bit of ground but we do try and make it as cheap as possible cost only. £105 for twelve months but if vulnerable ground comes up he will be given first option on it. Deer Groups working at there best and a real positive for others to follow.


What a complete & utter load of twaddle, you created your group David (the english way) for one reason and that was to give yourself credibility when begging for more ground (grund as you say) from the Forestry Commission, but it didnt work did it. You entice unwitting members in and get them to include their ground into your "group" then you, and your cronies, slap every deer on it!
The empy promise is that if the grup gets some grund then all the members will benefit, crap, you get the grund for free then tell the members that it will cost them £x to stalk it.

Gents, this is the very same numpty that constantly bangs on about how bad the Forestry Commission and SNH are and yet he sits on the development board of yet another "dmg", read his posts on the stalking directory making out that he is not in bed with the "authorities yet he swaps spit at the same table, this is the link http://www.deer-management.co.uk/ldns/ click on the "development Committee link and his name is there.

Runs with the Fox & the Hounds springs to mind, I posted this on the Stalking Directory but his mate deleted it because it exposed him for what he is.

I know its hard to get your "own bit" but keep trying or join a syndicate. Beware, these lowlifes have their snouts in the same trough, they prey on inexperienced stalkers by promising the earth and all you end up with is, out of pocket and a bucket of shite.


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