I have to say not all those who run dogs are guilty of such an act but unfortunately for others there seems to be an attitude that poaching deer using dogs during the hours of darkness , on land they dont have permission to be on is an acceptable thing to do.
First and foremost its in non compliance of the law , causing suffering in the manner I describe in my post above. I think any true sportsman irrespective of the legal situation cannot but agree other than such actions are unacceptable, in my view any one who champions there cause otherwise cannot bring the hunting/stalking/shooting fraternity into a favorable light in any way shape or form. We all have views and consciences and personally I am somewhat at odds to those actions that cause suffering to what i see cruel.
Personally I do not find them acceptable.
Just my point of view of which i am entitled to,however not wishing to appear bigoted,if anyone can show me a different point of view that it is acceptable to those I hold. I am prepared to listen.
I too hold the same views. As do a great many others. Hence the wide spread and growing antipathy as I mentioned earlier.
Although for me coursing deer is totally unjustifiable be it it daylight or under cover of darkness, whether the perpetrator /s have permission to be on the land or otherwise. Although a point to be remembered is that by granting permission renders the landowner liable for prosecution under the Hunting Act 2004.
I like you, if anyone can point me in the direction of an alternative POV that isn't based upon inaccuracies, has some basis other than its traditional that holds up under rigorous scrutiny. I'm prepared to listen.
I read Stuarts opinions and although i disagree with some points, i totally respect his opinion. Your posts appear to be generated more towards trying to show your perceived inteligence with an underlying sub text against dog lads, deer coursing and poachers but also what appears to be a love of the very organisations that and trying to ban ALL hunting. You claimed a while ago it was your last comment on the subject but i think you love the lads biting http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
You mention that there is a widespread and growing apathy (to deer coursing i assume), well for me and many others it is now historical, done and dusted but this "widespread apathy" is generally attributed to the general public who also appear to have a widespread apathy for almost anything that involes the killing of wildlife, and that includes stalking(which you approve of)? Im not going to try and justify poaching or lamping deer, both are and were illegal so i wont try and defend them. You say to YOU coursing deer in daylight on permission is "unjustifiable", thats your opinion and your entitled to it, but it doesn't make you right, as much as my opinion doesn't make me right. I have mentioned before, you could regale tales of injured deer after idiotic lurchermen have been out and i could do the same with stories about idiotic gunmen and injured animals, but it doesn't mean i tar all gunmen with the same brush and decry their sport. You say you are willing to listen to an alternative point of view that isn't based on innacuracies, well to be honest I get the feeling your views are fixed in cement, as are mine, and as its now a banned and historical sport, also the fact that neither your, or my opinion means diddly squat and wont change anything so arguing is a little redundent. I think we all know that the Hunting Act 2004 was a travisty of justice, organisations invested heavilty in pushingg the legislation through despite some of the findings.
What amazes me about some of the "general public" is that they will sit slack jawed watching a hyena pack disembowel and eat a live wildebeast, or eat intensively reared meat with no thoughts or compassion towards its welfare, mainly because its cheaper, they will also call hunters cruel as they stroke thheir morbidlly obese dog and feed there pet rabbit that spends its life in a 3x1 hutch.........
I have no need to demonstrate my intelligence. I let the facts speak for themselves. Its true and I have made not attempt to disguise the fact that I hold deer coursers, poachers and some so called “dogmen” in extremely low regard. I always have and always will. I don’t support any blanket ban on all forms of hunting as you claim. I just support the ban on unethical, unjustifiable forms. Namely deer coursing! In regards making my last comment what I actually said was “I had just made the decision to say no more when you posted your comments. So I'll give this thread 1 more go around.” As I felt the post to which I was responding worthy of a reply and have continued to do so. How people respond to my posts or any other post for that matter is entirely up to them. If I consider what they post by way of reply worthy of a response I will endeavour to do so in an intelligent, polite, and meaningful way. With the odd touch, of humour, banter, and ridicule thrown in along the way for good measure.
In order to keep us on the right track I’ll need to correct you on what I actual posted again in order to ensure that any misconceptions, errors or misunderstandings, perceived or actual are addressed
“There is a high level of antipathy towards dogmen from a large cross section of society, who might or might not be unduly influenced by the bad press, and the marketing activities of the likes of the LACS and PETA. There is wide spread antipathy as well from other field sports participants who tend to be more reliably informed and less swayed by the AR hearts and minds marketing. “
So the apathy stems not just from the general bunny hugging public, but from many quarters including many other field sport participants. So you can’t blame it all on the urban organic is best, or inner city tower block resident who closest contact with the realities of the countryside is watching Countryfile on a Sunday because it comes on before X factor.
“You say to YOU coursing deer in daylight on permission is "unjustifiable", thats your opinion and your entitled to it, but it doesn't make you right, as much as my opinion doesn't make me right” Fortunately its not just me that holds that opinion. In this regard I don’t have to be right. Although I am! The majority says I am. The law say that I am and continued public opinion says that I am. Now you may disagree with all of those That is your right. It just doesn’t make you any the less wrong.
As for the Hunting Act 2004 being a travesty of justice. I would partially agree with you. Partially for the reason you state and fr a number of others. But the one shining triumph that came out of that whole mess was the banning of deer coursing! I’m a great believer in taking your wins when ever and where ever you can, and that was one resounding victory.
Again, unethical and unjustifiable in YOUR opinion,and many others perhaps, yet ethical and justifiable in many others. I also think the humour and banter has been replaced by more of a sermon, although i'll grant you it does have ridicule http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... Would you be happy to throw other fieldsports to the dogs so to speak if it saves your own chosen sport? A lot of your posts seem like grandstanding? What if some fellow fieldsports enthusiasts don't like the idea of intensively rearing pheasants only to release them on keepered land for the shoot, and dont like injured birds, or stock ponds rearing fish for the lakes and rivers only to have a hook placed in their mouth on numerous occasions? I would like to think we all appreciate and understand other types of sport an the worst case scenarios or arguments for and against them. You didn't like one particular sport, and i respect that, but your mentioning of taking your wins when ever and where ever comes across like you are on the side of those we fought against so hard against, thats what i can't understand..........
"Again, unethical and unjustifiable in YOUR opinion,and many others perhaps, yet ethical and justifiable in many others." How many is many in your opinion? Coursing was always a minority activity and the number actively involved in deer coursing was even smaller. Like I said it wasn't just my opinion. It was the majorities opinion that saw the activity banned! That's the way democratic politics works.
"Would you be happy to throw other fieldsports to the dogs so to speak if it saves your own chosen sport?" My chosen field sport was never in jeopardy! I would never support any activity that I considered utterly unethical and unjustifiable.To do so would be hypocritical.
"I would like to think we all appreciate and understand other types of sport an the worst case scenarios or arguments for and against them." At the risk of being repetitive. I do understand and have knowledge of most field sports, from ferreting to grouse shooting, from hawking to salmon fishing, along with virtually every form of hunting with hounds. Those that I haven't participated in have been from the same reasons that I have no desire to " drink my own pee".
"You didn't like one particular sport, and i respect that, but your mentioning of taking your wins when ever and where ever comes across like you are on the side of those we fought against so hard against, thats what i can't understand." I suggest that you read my reply to Richie10 on the LACS thread in the Gamekeeping section.
League Against Cruel Sports fires campaigns chief.
The League Against Cruel Sports has dismissed its campaigns and communications director Steve Taylor for gross misconduct following a disciplinary investigation concerning expenses claims.
A League Against Cruel Sports spokesman said the charity has referred the case to the police and will not comment further until investigations are completed:
Don't you support them?
On 99.9% of their policies and ideas no. The only thing I share with them is a view on deer coursing and the all round benefit of its ban. Hardly what I would regard as support in its widest sense.
Edited by gerfalcon, 22 November 2011 - 09:16 am.