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zx10mike

fireball brass problems

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hello clever people

when i first got my fireball .17 with a bit of load development it was great but i started to get flyers no matter how carefull i loaded.now groups have gone to shit .at the end of the neck i am getting marks ,clean with no powder residue when fired.it turned out i was 20 tho to long on my trin so i adjusted and trimmed to spec min . the problem is still showing.

 

my question is has anyone ever had to trim shorter than spec whilst bieng aware of exesive head space.the rifle is a remington 700.i should also add that i have had trouble closing the bolt on some rounds,just at the last bit not tight all the way.

 

thanks chaps

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On my prefered load od 16 gr H4198 i get no movement on the brass. When i upped the powder to 16.9 gr they started to strech, Mine is a remington seven.

Are you neck sizing or full lenght ?

i had problems with my .22-250 with neck sizing brass being tight fitting, full lenghted and probles went away .

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Just a thought mate have you checked the crown on your rifle?are you seating your primers properly? may be causing the bolt closing problem, if it was hard to open I would say you were over pressure, Wouldent be the first man to think his ammo is at fault only to find another problem lurking in the background, best of luck mate :thumbs:

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hi chaps thanks for the reply

 

i am neck sizing but the damage is on the tip of the neck not the side the brass slides in a treat till the point the bolt closes its the last mil that is the prob . its not hard to open and primers seated well.my gut tells me trim .

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hi chaps thanks for the reply

 

i am neck sizing but the damage is on the tip of the neck not the side the brass slides in a treat till the point the bolt closes its the last mil that is the prob . its not hard to open and primers seated well.my gut tells me trim .

 

How many times have you fired this brass just neck sizing? This can be the simple solution to stiff bolt closing and (sometimes) difficult extraction - remedy - full length or bumping the shoulder back with a body die. You say your primers seat well - by that do you mean that you can easily see that they are seated well below the level of the head stamp?

 

Is min spec (COL) around 1.4" ? How far back from the lands are you seating the bullet. If you are one of these people that insist you keep it 10 thou back - were your original measurements correct - too long and it could be jamming in the lands giving a hard bolt closure.

 

Re flyers - do you check bullet run out? Does your cleaning regime include carbon removal from the throat - these small hot rounds can cause major build ups of carbon. Apart from cleaning the bore do you regularily clean the chamber - you would be surprised how much debris can collect in the chamber - enough to stop your case from centralising in the chamber resulting in poor accuracy.

 

Case prep with the small calibres is critical - with what you can get away with on the .22 's and above, it is not so with the .17 and 20's

 

Peter

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neck sized twice but will full length to check primers seat tight and the bullets are flush and have no rocking when stood up.min spec is 1.4 and i am not trying to seat the bullets far out as groups suffer my seating depth is near factory ammo but i don't posses a gauge.i did purchase a hornady lock and load concentricity gauge but it was not suitable for such a small round.rolling it on a flat surface before fully pressing the round the bullet looks true with the naked eye.i bought a chamber cleaning kit but nothing fits the .17 so i use a cotton bud each time i clean to clear loose deposits.

 

 

i feel the damage would show more on the shoulder if they need bumping back and i think the brass diameter is not the problem.thanks for your thoughts peter i will continue my investigating later today.

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.i bought a chamber cleaning kit but nothing fits the .17 so i use a cotton bud each time i clean to clear loose deposits.

 

 

i feel the damage would show more on the shoulder if they need bumping back and i think the brass diameter is not the problem.thanks for your thoughts peter i will continue my investigating later today.

 

Regarding the chamber cleaning, can I suggest instead of a cotton bud which because of its size in relation to the chamber diameter, may only move dirt from one side to the other, you tear off a strip from a kitchen paper towel the same width as your .17 brush (Say a piece 6cm by 22cm) and wrap this (clockwise) around your cleaning brush with a few drops of solvent and turn it into the chamber then pump it a few times followed by a repeat with a clean bit of towel.

 

Dont forget also to clean where the bolt locks up against the chamber - another place where dirt can accumulate.

 

I am not suggesting this is your problem with accuracy you originally asked about but it is just something that should be part of your cleaning regime. There are numerous reasons why a bullet will not go to POA from inside - bore, case prep, seating depth and crown to outside - scope, mod, barrel clearance, rest and shooting technique.

 

When a shooter gets the above right, the results with the small calibres can be pretty good. My Tac 20 is about there - see the result on my 14cm steel plate:-

 

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq101/wyndog/Middle250ydsbottom500ydsTAC20.jpg

 

Peter

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good advice on the cleaning peter,going to try full length sizing the brass then trim anouther ten thou.if that fails i will buy factory ammo and see if there is still a problem.my .204 shoots great i am very atentive to brass but still have lots to learn and i am sure i am just missing something.the idea of full length sizing was also good,i suspect the shoulder angle changing may allow the bullet to sit deeper into the chamber perhaps i'm miles off but worth ruling out.thanks for your time

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my chamber is tight on mine. i had to fls all my brass when i 1st got it. as i couldnt get the bolt down. it fits snug now. ive had 3 firings out of some of the brass.

 

and it hasn't moved. some of the brass is still under trim length

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thats j25 isn't it.very nice offer.its allways good to know local shooters.got to try a couple of thinks in the morning if that fails i will take you up on that just to tick it off. thankyou

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