dogs fighting, driving me round the twist

[skycat 6,174]

Adult dogs don't go around licking other dogs' faces because they want food. Yes, its what pups do but it is also a submissive thing: licking the face of the more dominant dog.

 

I have a terrier that behaves in a similar manner BUT she too would get into a fight with any bitch given half a chance because although she behaves as though she is subordinate, she is continually pushing, in a sneaky and snidy underdog way to have her existance recognised by the other bitches: the licking is excessive and ends up with the other bitch telling her off.

 

When she gets told off (snapped at) by the other bitches her terrier mentality makes her snap back and before you know it there is a fight on your hands.

 

That is why I keep lurchers and terriers separate: they operate by different rules. Any terrier worthy of the name terrier won't turn the other cheek if another dog snaps at it whereas a lurcher (usually) says "OK, Iwon't do that again".

 

It's not fair on your lurcher to make her keep putting up with the terrier doing that to her, so separate them before its too late: give the lurcher some piece and keep the terrier safe.

 

Mine are fine out working together by the way, its just at home you need to separate them.

[JPTfellterrier 65]

Adult dogs don't go around licking other dogs' faces because they want food. Yes, its what pups do but it is also a submissive thing: licking the face of the more dominant dog.

 

I have a terrier that behaves in a similar manner BUT she too would get into a fight with any bitch given half a chance because although she behaves as though she is subordinate, she is continually pushing, in a sneaky and snidy underdog way to have her existance recognised by the other bitches: the licking is excessive and ends up with the other bitch telling her off.

 

When she gets told off (snapped at) by the other bitches her terrier mentality makes her snap back and before you know it there is a fight on your hands.

 

That is why I keep lurchers and terriers separate: they operate by different rules. Any terrier worthy of the name terrier won't turn the other cheek if another dog snaps at it whereas a lurcher (usually) says "OK, Iwon't do that again".

 

It's not fair on your lurcher to make her keep putting up with the terrier doing that to her, so separate them before its too late: give the lurcher some piece and keep the terrier safe.

 

Mine are fine out working together by the way, its just at home you need to separate them.

 

 

DONT leave them to get on with it, or you will come home to a dead terrier. Keep them seperate at all times when you are not around to supervise.

thanks for the advice, shes a bolshy little thing is her problem and does tend to try and dominate any dog that comes in the house and is usually worse with dogs than bitches....shal be supervised at all times now, thanks

[Darlotaximum 2]

Adult dogs don't go around licking other dogs' faces because they want food. Yes, its what pups do but it is also a submissive thing: licking the face of the more dominant dog.

 

I have a terrier that behaves in a similar manner BUT she too would get into a fight with any bitch given half a chance because although she behaves as though she is subordinate, she is continually pushing, in a sneaky and snidy underdog way to have her existance recognised by the other bitches: the licking is excessive and ends up with the other bitch telling her off.

 

When she gets told off (snapped at) by the other bitches her terrier mentality makes her snap back and before you know it there is a fight on your hands.

 

That is why I keep lurchers and terriers separate: they operate by different rules. Any terrier worthy of the name terrier won't turn the other cheek if another dog snaps at it whereas a lurcher (usually) says "OK, Iwon't do that again".

 

It's not fair on your lurcher to make her keep putting up with the terrier doing that to her, so separate them before its too late: give the lurcher some piece and keep the terrier safe.

 

Mine are fine out working together by the way, its just at home you need to separate them.

 

 

DONT leave them to get on with it, or you will come home to a dead terrier. Keep them seperate at all times when you are not around to supervise.

thanks for the advice, shes a bolshy little thing is her problem and does tend to try and dominate any dog that comes in the house and is usually worse with dogs than bitches....shal be supervised at all times now, thanks

 

What a releif to find out i'm not the only one having this problem. I have a few (problems)

 

About 3 month a go I came home to find blood all over my patio and two very meek looking dogs. It looked like it had been a hell of a battle. My collie whippet had cut legs and two big bite holes in his neck and the patterdale and scratches all over his face. It ended up the skin dying between the two bites on the col/whip and his whole neck opening up which took about a month and plenty of trips to the vets to sort out. The terrier who was limping is made of tough stuff got a dose of anti inflamitory and was fine. however i cannot still let them anywhere near each other as they will just fly at each other. i think it has to do with thh fact that the col/whip is a squealer. Even the smallest scruff and he''s off but as soon as he starts the terrier is gunning for him. I don't work the terrier but he is from working lines so don't know if this has anything to do with it.

 

Any advice would be welcome as I think i am gonna have to rehome one of them as I don't have the sapce to pen them seperately outside as i have my big bull x in the other pen. I currently have the terrier inside but it's like a game of musical chairs moving them all round so i can let the terrier out to do it's business. IT'S DRIVING ME ROUND THE TWIST

[joe_lynas 2]

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Edited September 28, 2019 by joe_lynas

[Guest chook]

Sorry but pack structure's and dominance theroys were debunked a long time ago,

domestic dogs are not wild dogs or wolfs.

in a group of dogs pack structures change all the time - depending on the situation,

i have 6 bitches and one dog living together, only had 2 fights between the bitches in all the years ive had them,

and thats because the lurcher dosent like being stood on so snapped at the others and a fight broke out, simple i gave her a bed of her own,

problem solved,

my lot lie together, eat together, do everthing together - i dont ristrict them, they eat before me, go through doors before me, even lie on the couch,

they know whats acceptable and whats not, theres not one of them thats above the others, they work as a team be that indoors or out,

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2009/6361.html

 

 

If the fight is braking out because of the terrier licking the lurchers face, then you have to make it not acceptable,

stop her from doing it, if you see her doing it spray her with water, or remove her - use your voice,

licking anothers face is a sign of appesment, the dog is looking for exceptance from the other, its manily done in greeting,

but with the sounds of whats happening, the terrier is going ott, and is invading the lurchers space.

[Toka 10]

we have used the normal training regime as well as the holistic approach and found that a combination seems to work. for dogs that dont respond well to the normal then the holistic did produce results and vice versa.

 

i havent been able to read the full report about the 'dominance' [holistic] method but in the abstract it does say that the the domestic dogs studied were all neutered. i do know that trials should contain subjects that are as close to the ones you are trying to investigate...i'm not sure that studying neutered dogs, when a lot of pet/working dogs are not neutered can be counted close enough as the neutering of the dogs removes some basic chemicals ike testesterone, which is known to have an effect on aggression. again i'm not doubting this study but perhaps they should have studied a group of 'natural' dogs, they may have got a different result. after all their results seem to suggest that the wolves behaviour differed from the feral dogs which differed from the neutered dogs, perhaps natural dogs would follow one of the other groups more closely???

 

we have had akitas and more recently a terrier, we have used methods that have been talked about on this post...eating first, going through doors first, we have used some physical force on occasion but mainly separation when they have been bad [apparently they want to be part of the pack and so if you separate them they rethink their behaviour], water spray etc. i think the main thing is to find a method that works for you and your dogs, or pick the bits and pieces from different techniques that work.

 

i am always a bit suspect of an organisation, like dogs trust [also rspca] who come out with a study trying to move poeple away from words/actions that seem to have a relationship with dominance/violence/punishment etc. it may be they want people to stop 'hitting' dogs etc as it seems a political correctness type thing. sometimes you may have to 'hit' a dog to get a message through....thats not to beat it up but more to shock it into stoping and paying attention....

 

anyway i would agree with most of what has been posted to try, and add the separation, if one dog is misbehaving then separate it, to a room by iteslf. start with a few minutes but increase it if there is a severe incident. when you let the dog out eventually ignore it at first, no eye contact or physical contact until it has settled down or relaxed then give it a stroke to welcome it back.. good luck with it!

[Guest chook]

The dogs trust didnt do the study.

 

To get your message through to a dog you dont have to hit it at all, ive never had to with any of mine,

i just need to use my voice and they stop what ever there doing, if there too ingrosed in what there doing, then i simply get hold of the collar and

intropt (sp) the dog - 5 bitches not neutered, 1 bitch neutered and 1 neutered dog lives together,

no problems in all the years ive had them, there all verry close in age.

[Toka 10]

hi..yeah i realise that but you do tend to find that they will have a lot of input and also will use someone they think will get the results they want....another group who wanted to endorse the 'dominance' theory would find another group who would come up with the goods for them as well, that is all!!....the best way is to find what works for you and your dogs. certainally we noticed vast improvements in our akitas when we came accross a stumbling block [using normal training methods] in the training and behaviour, and used some of the holistic methods suggested....as i say it worked for us and i think you need a range of tools to do the job.

 

really a good study should have concentrated on a group of dogs similar to those they want to study, so perhaps non neutered dogs, as they are the norm in the working dogs area from what i have found anyway...it would be interesting to see if there were any differences if such a study was undertaken.

 

i agree, i use very similar methods...voice first and collar second, occasionally a finger in the side if he isnt wearing a collar [like you say its about breaking their attention or interruption ]. got to say the akitas were easier to train than my terrier, even though most people dint think they would train well....[never make competition standard but were controllable and did what i wanted]

 

ATB

[Tallyho 181]

where has the bucket of water comre from??? , i lost a terrier bitch to a bullx , when they started fighting a bucket of water wernt gona stop um ,the problem between um will only get worse, i take it they are both bitches , you will just have to keep them seprate but thats just my opinion, when we have had two bitchs take a dislike then its forever .

[the_stig 6,614]

where has the bucket of water comre from??? , i lost a terrier bitch to a bullx , when they started fighting a bucket of water wernt gona stop um ,the problem between um will only get worse, i take it they are both bitches , you will just have to keep them seprate but thats just my opinion, when we have had two bitchs take a dislike then its forever .

bucket of water came from me i`m not saying its fool proof i`ve known a bucket of water full in the face stop 2 staffies .. Edited May 25, 2009 by the_stig