Payment??

[Hob&Jill 258]

Some good replies; many have asked the same question I guess I'd like to see answered.

 

Kay asked about working hours etc? Compo about tax etc?

 

If beating is not a job, but a hobby; do working hours come into it (or even the minimum wage question?) Should we declare this "income"? There is no doubt that beating costs more than it "pays" - fuel, dog food, vets bills, clothing etc etc, so from that point of view it might be beneficial!

 

Animal cruelty is not going to work for the antis; but getting onto the tax bandwagon as Animal Aid are doing will cause genuine trouble.

 

If payment was mandatory, then surely tax would have to be paid? Possably making it more hastle than its worth from the shoots point of view (we already hear of shoots who cant afford beaters).

 

Maybe we need to go back 10-20 years in our attitude. maybe its this modern thougt that beaters have to be paid which causes the problem (I know of beters who turn beating down because they say the money is too poor!).

 

10-20 years ago beating was not as it is today; the act was the same but there was less emphasis on cash and more on getting a brace, a bit of food and the chance of a beaters day; thatr is still the case but seemingly becomming less so.

 

Many now see (and rightly so) beating as a hobby/sport in its own right. Done as a way of working dogs that one has trained etc; if this is the case why should beaters be paid to enjoy their hobby, when guns are paying through the nose to enjoy theirs?

 

Sure beaters (and pickers-up) put in hard work to help with the sucess of a days shooting, so some form of "thank you" is needed; but are they not there for the very same reason as the guns?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and asking questions in the hope to spur an interesting debate, not kick off about beaters earning money.

 

I was thinking more of kids getting exploited , i know its experience for them but surely they cant be expected to work 8 hrs for example in all weathers for a couple of quid & a drink of pop

 

There not expected to, its really not like a job at all, not like your employed or anything just turn up. If they want to go they can, most kids are with parents anyway.

 

ATB,

 

HJ

[The Sporting Agent 0]

Some good replies; many have asked the same question I guess I'd like to see answered.

 

Kay asked about working hours etc? Compo about tax etc?

 

If beating is not a job, but a hobby; do working hours come into it (or even the minimum wage question?) Should we declare this "income"? There is no doubt that beating costs more than it "pays" - fuel, dog food, vets bills, clothing etc etc, so from that point of view it might be beneficial!

 

Animal cruelty is not going to work for the antis; but getting onto the tax bandwagon as Animal Aid are doing will cause genuine trouble.

 

If payment was mandatory, then surely tax would have to be paid? Possably making it more hastle than its worth from the shoots point of view (we already hear of shoots who cant afford beaters).

 

Maybe we need to go back 10-20 years in our attitude. maybe its this modern thougt that beaters have to be paid which causes the problem (I know of beters who turn beating down because they say the money is too poor!).

 

10-20 years ago beating was not as it is today; the act was the same but there was less emphasis on cash and more on getting a brace, a bit of food and the chance of a beaters day; thatr is still the case but seemingly becomming less so.

 

Many now see (and rightly so) beating as a hobby/sport in its own right. Done as a way of working dogs that one has trained etc; if this is the case why should beaters be paid to enjoy their hobby, when guns are paying through the nose to enjoy theirs?

 

Sure beaters (and pickers-up) put in hard work to help with the sucess of a days shooting, so some form of "thank you" is needed; but are they not there for the very same reason as the guns?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and asking questions in the hope to spur an interesting debate, not kick off about beaters earning money.

 

I was thinking more of kids getting exploited , i know its experience for them but surely they cant be expected to work 8 hrs for example in all weathers for a couple of quid & a drink of pop

 

There not expected to, its really not like a job at all, not like your employed or anything just turn up. If they want to go they can, most kids are with parents anyway.

 

ATB,

 

HJ

 

I would agree; BUT then if people expect a "wage" structure, maybe it then becomes a job of sorts, taxes get paid and rules and regs enforced. Or maybe not and the above holds true!

[woodga 170]

the hardest type of beating is out on the moors flushing grouse for the guns you break the line and see how long before you get a rollicking .its hard graft and your all ways knackered when your finished you earn your money trudging up and down hills and valleys,some of the lads get rabbiting as a perk but they in reality are helping the keeper who dosent have enough time to control rabbits as well as perform his other duties ,so yes to getting paid on estate,and syndicate shoots, , informal shoots with a group of lads just having a banter well thats a different story as its more about the crack and having a safe laugh and piss take of a poor shot not about ££

[COMPO 54]

Some good replies; many have asked the same question I guess I'd like to see answered.

 

Kay asked about working hours etc? Compo about tax etc?

 

If beating is not a job, but a hobby; do working hours come into it (or even the minimum wage question?) Should we declare this "income"? There is no doubt that beating costs more than it "pays" - fuel, dog food, vets bills, clothing etc etc, so from that point of view it might be beneficial!

 

Animal cruelty is not going to work for the antis; but getting onto the tax bandwagon as Animal Aid are doing will cause genuine trouble.

 

If payment was mandatory, then surely tax would have to be paid? Possably making it more hastle than its worth from the shoots point of view (we already hear of shoots who cant afford beaters).

 

Maybe we need to go back 10-20 years in our attitude. maybe its this modern thougt that beaters have to be paid which causes the problem (I know of beters who turn beating down because they say the money is too poor!).

 

10-20 years ago beating was not as it is today; the act was the same but there was less emphasis on cash and more on getting a brace, a bit of food and the chance of a beaters day; thatr is still the case but seemingly becomming less so.

 

Many now see (and rightly so) beating as a hobby/sport in its own right. Done as a way of working dogs that one has trained etc; if this is the case why should beaters be paid to enjoy their hobby, when guns are paying through the nose to enjoy theirs?

 

Sure beaters (and pickers-up) put in hard work to help with the sucess of a days shooting, so some form of "thank you" is needed; but are they not there for the very same reason as the guns?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and asking questions in the hope to spur an interesting debate, not kick off about beaters earning money.

 

I was thinking more of kids getting exploited , i know its experience for them but surely they cant be expected to work 8 hrs for example in all weathers for a couple of quid & a drink of pop

 

There not expected to, its really not like a job at all, not like your employed or anything just turn up. If they want to go they can, most kids are with parents anyway.

 

ATB,

 

HJ

 

I would agree; BUT then if people expect a "wage" structure, maybe it then becomes a job of sorts, taxes get paid and rules and regs enforced. Or maybe not and the above holds true!

 

 

I think that its already considered a "job" by the authorities.......the health and safety gestapo have already had their teeth into beating haven't they?

 

wasn't there the suggestion that the shoot's should supply yellow luminous vests and goggles? if the H&S consider that beaters are employed....then so will the tax office etc.....a precedent has been set!

 

the tax office probably just turn a blind eye to beaters pay though knowing that it varies and is not always paid depedning on teh shoot etc....and they will have bigger fish to fry

 

I think all teh above stemmed from an accident a few years ago....a beater collected a few stray pellets in his face or such, the ambulance was called, the ambulance service called the police, the police came down and as they have to do completed a report of teh incident , they decided it was an accident and the senior management within the police then told the H&S as they are obliged to do with industrial accidents......from then on i think beaters were considered employee's by H&S.........or so the story went when my old gamekeeper friend told me! they then suggested yellow hi-viz jkts and goggles???