If Rodenticides were banned.......???

[Guest Talon]

Hi folks, just a wee thought or just a conversation starter really for the pesters.............how do you think the industry would cope if rodenticides were outlawed? this is obviously very unlikely to happen on a mass scale anyway but just think if it did ow would we cope?? I for one think the large pest cotrol companys would have to throw in the towel as rodenticides are pretty much the only weapon in their armoury they rely on.......apart from glue boards!! what im geting at here is would this be a good thing or a bad thing as regards to proper pest controlers who have learned there trade properly through trapping, learning their target/quarry behavour and best methods of controll but who lose out to the national company with the shiny van, "pest technician" who was a pizza delivery man this time last week! lol who thinks they could still do the job if there was an all out ban???

 

Talon

[stubby 175]

your looking at it wrongly, taking pest control, and then adding in about trapping etc, fair do's if your pest control is rural, and your pest is rabbit,mole,fox etc, yes you dont need to rely on poisons, but you trying to say, that your losing out to the pestie who works for a big company and drives a shinney van, and your implying, no quailifications needed, if you live in a rural area as a pestie, but only did cockroach jobs, who would be to blame, trouble is alot of pesties want to do "the fun stuff" and leave all the other stuff, to others, yet its those pests that can earn the money

so tell me, when Im under a false floor in a ticket office, with around 18" of crawl space, spagetti junction of wires/cables everywhere, holes for conduit in every wall and downwards too, where live catch traps cant be used nor sticky boards (in that area) how would your properly trained trapper go about the job, over us pizza delivery guys who know sweet fa compared to you, remembering of course, we have 3 to 4 of these jobs to do, at different locations around london, all within a 3 hour time slot inc traveling,would you lay bait stations, or lay in wait with your gun

 

yes your right, alot of larger companys might fold, but its not because they cant work without poisons, its because thats all some companies with a pest problem will pay for, so not a case of us, not knowing our job, so lets get back to pizza's

 

some of us "inner city pesties" actually have a large area of birdwork, no poisons needed, proofing against feral pidgeons in public area is VERY BIG MONEY, we still learn our target/ quarry behaviour, we get thinking like pidgeons, and we can exclude them from an area without the need for culling, although we do that too in larger infested areas,

 

so you not only asking would the ban on poisons affect pest controllers, but your also implying a us and them on pesties are you not

its like me saying, if they banned shooting and trapping, how would the rural pesties survive, and classing it as a you and us problem,

[Guest Talon]

your looking at it wrongly, taking pest control, and then adding in about trapping etc, fair do's if your pest control is rural, and your pest is rabbit,mole,fox etc, yes you dont need to rely on poisons, but you trying to say, that your losing out to the pestie who works for a big company and drives a shinney van, and your implying, no quailifications needed, if you live in a rural area as a pestie, but only did cockroach jobs, who would be to blame, trouble is alot of pesties want to do "the fun stuff" and leave all the other stuff, to others, yet its those pests that can earn the money

so tell me, when Im under a false floor in a ticket office, with around 18" of crawl space, spagetti junction of wires/cables everywhere, holes for conduit in every wall and downwards too, where live catch traps cant be used nor sticky boards (in that area) how would your properly trained trapper go about the job, over us pizza delivery guys who know sweet fa compared to you, remembering of course, we have 3 to 4 of these jobs to do, at different locations around london, all within a 3 hour time slot inc traveling,would you lay bait stations, or lay in wait with your gun

 

yes your right, alot of larger companys might fold, but its not because they cant work without poisons, its because thats all some companies with a pest problem will pay for, so not a case of us, not knowing our job, so lets get back to pizza's

 

some of us "inner city pesties" actually have a large area of birdwork, no poisons needed, proofing against feral pidgeons in public area is VERY BIG MONEY, we still learn our target/ quarry behaviour, we get thinking like pidgeons, and we can exclude them from an area without the need for culling, although we do that too in larger infested areas,

 

so you not only asking would the ban on poisons affect pest controllers, but your also implying a us and them on pesties are you not

its like me saying, if they banned shooting and trapping, how would the rural pesties survive, and classing it as a you and us problem,

I seem to have got your back up stubby....its not personal mate! lol and its npt an us and them argument im trying to start here, i myslef to alot of pest work in the inner city probably about as much as i do wildlife in the country and i wasnt saying traps are better than poisons as like you said with your scenario poisons are the only practical methods available. My simple question was do you think the pest control industry could survive without them? and my point was the big national companys would struggle big time. And i disagree that quick treatments using poisons are all companys using pest control would pay for, most of the time this is all they pay for is because this is all they are offered. If poisons were banned they would still have pests to be controlled they would just have to adapt to the methods (and the time it takes to use them) to get rid of them, this is where the national companys would fall compared to the one man bands, as they survive mostly on multiple treatments and billing multiple customers, basically trying to get as much work done as possible in as little space of time as possible and to do this they rely on poisons that can be put down and left and just bill the customer...they just could not survive if rodentices were outlawed, so the question is, who still thinks they could do the job?? (and please do not take it personlly, i mean who would think the job is more hassle than its worth, not do you think you have the skills!)

Edited November 23, 2008 by john b
sort the quotes out

[moley 115]

the fun stuff !!

you want to try being out in the countryside , setting traps and snares and working your dogs and ferrets all week, bit of shooting thrown in , fresh air , nice smells , no one to bother you, laid out on the grass eating your cheese sandwiches

 

bloody hard work , i,ll tell ya

[heart of wales 19]

Who needs Tony Blair the RSPCA and all the other bunny hugging brigade if this how rural and Town pestcontrollers reguard each other ,

Iam fortunate enough to own my company after working and managing two of the largest ,my area is both rural and town best of both worlds.

Pest contollers werever they work like all trades have good and bad believe me I have seen them,however I believe that the majority of pest contollers are well trained and educated and are very dedicated to their work there is good money to be earned yes but you have to work for it,certain situations clients demand certain methods and practices,why ban something that works,I tend to always take out the biggest ammount of an infestation with traps proir to using poisions however sometimes this is not practical,if allowed to use it I would still prefer to use traps than strycnyne or gas for Moles.

[Matt 160]

Iam fortunate enough to own my company after working and managing two of the largest

 

I don't remember you managing when you were with us A? You were a surveyor who wanted to be a trainer if I remember correctly? Why bullshit?

 

 

 

I think people still think of national big companies like they were twenty years ago. Most of the top five companies now offer ferreting as a service, and regularly use traps.

[Guest Talon]

Iam fortunate enough to own my company after working and managing two of the largest

 

I don't remember you managing when you were with us A? You were a surveyor who wanted to be a trainer if I remember correctly? Why bullshit?

 

 

 

I think people still think of national big companies like they were twenty years ago. Most of the top five companies now offer ferreting as a service, and regularly use traps.

 

Oft!! and i thought you said two of the biggest companys aswell??? lol just kidding guys.....

[john b 38]

As an industry outsider it seems to me that ofcourse the industry wouldn't fold - I mean the pests are hardly likely to just go away are they ? We'd be overrun

 

All that would happen is that it would change. To begin with the costs of pest control might go up - more traps means more manpower to check then, more cost of kit and all that sort of thing. There would also be an increase in DIY pest control and all the fun that brings with it. Council tax would go up to cover the increased costs and probably there would be a lot more money spent on proofing - which is no bad thing.

 

But soon enough someone would come up with a new mass control method and everyone would be so sick of the pests and the cost that it would get approved in no time.

[Guest jbswildlife]

money is what is f**king this industry, company's would rather pay for a box checker at less than 16grand. posions that have been banned like cymag and stricnine was mainly down to the industry recording records and training.

bpca and npta are organisations that have forced them selfs on this trade. if you dont agree (i know your forefathers would) i once new a guy that had been in pest control about 10mins and would tell everyone that would listen he was a pest control trades man. 70% of pest controllers would fail a defra test. this is due to the fact all pest control company's work on a reactive basis, this tells me they dont know sh8t about sustainability just mony making. just my opinion

[Guest jbswildlife]

sorry forgot to say. i dont blame the techs its not there fault, i know loads that would love to learn it to become experts but cant, state of service. if i had a pound for every time i heard a manager say thaT

[stubby 175]

money is what is f**king this industry, company's would rather pay for a box checker at less than 16grand. posions that have been banned like cymag and stricnine was mainly down to the industry recording records and training.

bpca and npta are organisations that have forced them selfs on this trade. if you dont agree (i know your forefathers would) i once new a guy that had been in pest control about 10mins and would tell everyone that would listen he was a pest control trades man. 70% of pest controllers would fail a defra test. this is due to the fact all pest control company's work on a reactive basis, this tells me they dont know sh8t about sustainability just mony making. just my opinion

 

that depends on how good the bosses are, yup I started on 15 grand, but was then put in for, AND PASSED ALL

BPCA,

SITE PERSON IN CHARGE- LONDON UNDERGROUND

PASMA AND IPAF TICKETS- SCAFFOLD AND PLATFORMS

FIRST AID

ENTRY PERMITS

HEALTH AND SAFETY NVQ

SAFE USE OF AIRGUNS

and the list goes on, Im now on over 26 grand in just over 2yrs, and yup, for a few hours each evening, Im a box checker, a boring part of the job, but it pays the bills

[Guest jbswildlife]

money is what is f**king this industry, company's would rather pay for a box checker at less than 16grand. posions that have been banned like cymag and stricnine was mainly down to the industry recording records and training.

bpca and npta are organisations that have forced them selfs on this trade. if you dont agree (i know your forefathers would) i once new a guy that had been in pest control about 10mins and would tell everyone that would listen he was a pest control trades man. 70% of pest controllers would fail a defra test. this is due to the fact all pest control company's work on a reactive basis, this tells me they dont know sh8t about sustainability just mony making. just my opinion

 

that depends on how good the bosses are, yup I started on 15 grand, but was then put in for, AND PASSED ALL

BPCA,

SITE PERSON IN CHARGE- LONDON UNDERGROUND

PASMA AND IPAF TICKETS- SCAFFOLD AND PLATFORMS

FIRST AID

ENTRY PERMITS

HEALTH AND SAFETY NVQ

SAFE USE OF AIRGUNS

and the list goes on, Im now on over 26 grand in just over 2yrs, and yup, for a few hours each evening, Im a box checker, a boring part of the job, but it pays the bills

 

YOU MAY WORK FOR A GOOD TEAM STUBBY AND GOOD ON YOU, BUT IF YOU LOST YOUR JOB AND WANTED TO GET BACK INTO IT, I DOUBT YOU WOULD GET THE CHANCE OVER LOWER PAYER EMPLOYEES. THATS ALL IM SAYING, THE WELL TRAINED AND KEEN ONES ARE COMPETING AGAINST ANYONE EXPERIANCE OR NOT.

[zig zag wanderer 0]

No I don't believe pest control could manage without rodenticides. They might be more fun but traps aren't up to the job of vermin control alone.

[Guest jbswildlife]

No I don't believe pest control could manage without rodenticides. They might be more fun but traps aren't up to the job of vermin control alone.

HOW DID THEY DO IT THEN BEFORE POSIONS, IT WORKED THEN. i think talon was asking to see if today could match the old days. and the answer is no because the laws and regulations and the multi nationals have now idea. why do we place posions all over the country multiple sites with no real traceablity.

[Matt 160]

I have to disagree with you on this one Joe.

 

The 'multinationals' are an easy target for critisism, but they are not the ones selling contracts for £15 or £25 per visit. The BPCA have led the way in training and qualification, and at my last company, 85% of my staff had RSPH level 2.

 

When you write about a time 'before poisons' when exactly are you talking about? Poisons have been used for rodent control for at least the last few hundred years - the only difference is that the ones we use now are safer.

 

The whole concept of contract visits is precautionary, not reactionary, and who was it who pioneered that?

 

 

There are not many reputable companies out there who would send a technician out without training. In this increasingly litigous society, that would be asking for a law suit...

 

Some people reading this thread may think its just an academic discussion, but actually, with the new DR59 label restrictions coming into force, there is less likely to be the widespread use of rodenticide that there currently is. I had a discussion with our staff on wednesday about what we are going to do with bait stations if we are not going to bait them.....