Newbie looking for advice (like we do)

[AzMaN 0]

Hi all, useing the brilliant tool that is google, i have found these forums. After finaly requesting a form 101 from my local station, and reading SS's post on the best way to fill it in (which i will do in the next few weeks when i get a cabinet fitted) but i need some advice on what calibre rifle i should opt for.

 

I currently use a .22 air-rifle, and ill be honest, for the rabbits on my boss's land, the range just isnt possible, the rabbits are too shy, so for this reason i was looking at a .22LR but we also have a few fox's and muntjack deer around, which would mean the .22LR would not be humane method of control although as far as i can tell i need to pass a deer stalking course to be able to hunt deer, so that puts the larger calibre out for the time being so would a .222 or a .223 be ok for rabbits and fox's and a sensible size to step up to FAC on?

 

any advice would be much appriciated.

 

also, who are the best gun cabinet manufacturers??

[salukiwhippet 6]

As long as you have the owner's permission, you don't need to pass acourse to shoot deer, however it is a good way to learn the basics if you have no-one experienced to learn from. It may also help you to get a slot on your FAC for a deer calibre.

 

For me, .22lr is the best rabbit calibre, cheap to run, quiet, minimal meat damage and humane subject to good chot placement. It will kill foxes, but placement has to be perfect and some police forces are funny about passing .22's for fox control. It is certainly not a dedicated foxing calibre.

 

.17Hmr is very popular for rabbits, but personally I find them noisy and very easily affected by wind. It will extend your range on foxes, but again, placement must be perfect and some forces are hesitant to pass them.

 

Next step up is a .22 hornet, I've got one and I love it. It's my main foxing rifle and gets used for occasional bunnies too. It's good out to 175-200 yards. However, they can be ammunition fussy and factory stuff can be hard to obtain. I homeload for mine. It's about as noisy as a .17hmr, but with a much heavier bullet (I load nosler 40grain ballistic tips). My homeloads cost the same as factory HMR ammo. Rabbits hit with it must be hit in the head if you want to eat them! It's not legal for deer.

 

Then come the mainstream .22 centrefires, .222, .223, .22-250 etc. Legal for muntjac and CWD in england and wales, deadly on foxes but a noisy (if unmoderated!) and a very expensive way to kill rabbits!

 

If it was me, for a first application, I'd try for .22lr and a hornet or .222 or .223 depending on how much of a priority the muntjac are.

Do try to find someone experienced who can take you out, you will learn a lot, and always bear in mind that one mistake can have devastating consequences when powder burning firearms are involved!!

 

Where in the country are you?

 

Hope this helps, anything else, do ask

 

James

[AzMaN 0]

im from bedfordshire.

 

there is a chap that comes round and dose deer stalking for us so the option to go out with him is always avaliable, my boss also has a .22lr so i will probably follow his choice, can you put 2 choices on your first FAC application, or is it not advised?

 

thanks for all this advice.

Edited November 4, 2008 by AzMaN

[Guest Deerstalker]

Do not hesitate to ask for what you want and for what you think you will use over the next 5 years (the length of the certificate ) . i WOUL ASK FOR A .22LR FOR RABBITS ETC AND A DEADICATED DEER FOX RIFLE

6.5 X 55 You will never need anything else . Don't do the stalking coarse if you have some one to show you .You will learn more with him .After a few seasons if you want to expand then do the courses you will of gained a lot of knowlage by then ps best of luck.

[AzMaN 0]

Do not hesitate to ask for what you want and for what you think you will use over the next 5 years (the length of the certificate ) . i WOUL ASK FOR A .22LR FOR RABBITS ETC AND A DEADICATED DEER FOX RIFLE

6.5 X 55 You will never need anything else . Don't do the stalking coarse if you have some one to show you .You will learn more with him .After a few seasons if you want to expand then do the courses you will of gained a lot of knowlage by then ps best of luck.

 

thank you for all this advice, its much appriciated, i shall put in for the 2 different sizes on the form, a .22LR and maybe then either a .243 or a 6.5 x 55 for deer/foxing and see how it goes.

 

I asume the firearms officer will want to visit the land i wish to shoot on and my home location yes?

[SportingShooter 0]

As has been said above, a dedicated Rabbit/Vermin gun and a dedicated Fox/Deer gun is the best course to take.

 

If I were you, this is what I would do, seen as you are shooting mainly Rabbits, then a .22LR (this seems to be your choice anyway) and a .243.

 

6.5x55 is a very good calibre, I shot my first Buck with one not so long back, but a .243 will have a much wider choice of ammunition in both terms of availability and the weight of bullet used and also the style of bullet.

 

For instance, you could shoot a 58gr V-Max bullet for Fox, which is a Ballistic Tipped round designed for that purpose, and then go on to shoot a heavier softpointed bullet, such as 70-100gr, for Deer. Soft-points deform slower than a Ballistic Tipped bullet, and have a deeper, more controlled wound channel, and so are suited to Deer.

 

You can certainly put down for two rifles on first application, and if you have a mentor for Deer, then more the better for you. If not, then a DSC is the viable option as the majority of Licensing Departments wont grant you a rifle for Deer unless you have proven experience. Which is a shame in some ways, but good in others.

 

If the land which you want to shoot on has already been cleared then the Officer wont need to visit it. If you successfully have Deer on your FAC, there is a good chance that your FAC will be made Open as there are so many different places where you can pay to stalk etc.

 

The Officer will want to visit you at home to give you an informal interview on your experience, and your plans, and to check your security. He may also make an appointment to check any unpassed land with you at the same time.

 

Regards

SS

[AzMaN 0]

so much to take in.

 

My boss currently has a .22lr and owns the shooting rights on the land, (and i remember the firearms officer coming round and checking over the land) so hopefully that is all ok, allthough ive worked on the land for 5 years now so i know the in's and outs of it, where the boundrys are, footpaths ect which i assume i will be checked that i am fully aware of the area i plan to shoot in.

 

If i have a mentor for deer stalking, and i get a letter from him saying he is willing to take me on stalks and take me under his wing so to speak, would this please the firearms department?

[SportingShooter 0]

Yep, send along a letter from him stating his experience and that he is willing to accompany you.

 

Normally it is said that 6 accompanied stalks are the minimum

[biffo 0]

ive seen a few videos on youtube about .17hmr and how they impart more kinetic energy into the target than .22lr, do they make a mess of the rabbit carcass when going for a heart/lung shot?

 

to sportingshooter: is that 6 successful accompanied stalks?

[SportingShooter 0]

ive seen a few videos on youtube about .17hmr and how they impart more kinetic energy into the target than .22lr, do they make a mess of the rabbit carcass when going for a heart/lung shot?

 

to sportingshooter: is that 6 successful accompanied stalks?

Its a tricky one Biffo, depends on the individual department, but I would say Yes, successful stalks.

 

And yes a HMR, will make a mess of a gut shot 90% of the time.

[Guest Deerstalker]

The choice of calibre is of coarse yours young man the reason i chose the . 6.5 is because the home office now states this as the calibre for a all in one deer fox rifle.

Sorry sporting shooter but the 6.5 / .260 Has a range of bullets weights that will surpass most other calibres and the .243 is a start rifle compared.

Its the difference between a whippet x terrier for rabbits it will do but the collie greyhound will do it a lot better.

What i would do is ask the FLO to walk the ground with you and let him do most of the talking eg always say what would you do.

 

Make sure you know you land

Make sure you know your quarrie

Make sure you know your calibre choice

But most of all know your safety areas .

 

BEST OF LUCK.

[Mr_Logic 5]

I'd start with a 22LR, forgiving and very versatile calibre, not to mention cheap!

 

Then I'd get a 223 for foxes (and BTW folks, rabbits are very shootable with 223, head shot, and Prvi ammo is only a little more than HMR now).

 

Deer... hmm... well, I have a 243 I used to use and a 308 I will use. Either works. I'd stick with common calibres, people like others but you know you'll get 243 or 308 ammo wherever you stalk. 308 will knock over any deer you like and nobody will raise an eyebrow regarding the power, which they might with 243. Equally, 243 kicks less so if you don't like recoil, then you might shoot better with it.

 

best thing, start small - 22LR is great and you'll want one so easy to get and start there. Then, try other people's kit, ask people in person who actually use the stuff. While we can help on here, finding someone in person, preferably who lets you learn firsthand, is a good way to start. Speaking as someone who has no rifle older than 10 months (I have 22LR, 17HMR, 223 x 2, 243, 308) because of learning, you will save a FORTUNE by waiting!!

[jamie g 17]

if it was me i would get hmr for rabbiting. great bunny basher and nice and flat shooting plus it gives more range if you need it then 22lr.

 

then for deer i would get a 6.5x55 but if they dont give you that size centrefire right away try and get a 22 centrefire.

223 would be a good choice you could have cwd and muntjac on ticket then.

 

if they wont give you centrefire right away have hmr for a couple of months then put in for centrefire.

[SportingShooter 0]

The choice of calibre is of coarse yours young man the reason i chose the . 6.5 is because the home office now states this as the calibre for a all in one deer fox rifle.

Sorry sporting shooter but the 6.5 / .260 Has a range of bullets weights that will surpass most other calibres and the .243 is a start rifle compared.

Its the difference between a whippet x terrier for rabbits it will do but the collie greyhound will do it a lot better.

What i would do is ask the FLO to walk the ground with you and let him do most of the talking eg always say what would you do.

 

Make sure you know you land

Make sure you know your quarrie

Make sure you know your calibre choice

But most of all know your safety areas .

 

BEST OF LUCK.

How much of a choice are you going to have if you walk into your local Gunshop?

 

How many manufacturers, crossed with the bullet weights?

 

Cant say I have ever seen the amount of manufacturers making 6.5 as they do .243

 

I agree that there are a lot of weights for the 6.5 as there are .243/6MM but not as many commercially available, as if you reloaded.

 

Also, how much is 6.5 compared to .243? If you shoot a lot of foxes or Deer for that matter then it gets expensive, though with Premium .243 over £1 a round, not cheap either.

 

Im not knocking the Calibre, shot it myself and it dropped like a stone, expressing my opinion that it will depend on Cost and availability of what the guy's local gunny will stock.

 

Regards

SS

[jamie g 17]

The choice of calibre is of coarse yours young man the reason i chose the . 6.5 is because the home office now states this as the calibre for a all in one deer fox rifle.

Sorry sporting shooter but the 6.5 / .260 Has a range of bullets weights that will surpass most other calibres and the .243 is a start rifle compared.

Its the difference between a whippet x terrier for rabbits it will do but the collie greyhound will do it a lot better.

What i would do is ask the FLO to walk the ground with you and let him do most of the talking eg always say what would you do.

 

Make sure you know you land

Make sure you know your quarrie

Make sure you know your calibre choice

But most of all know your safety areas .

 

BEST OF LUCK.

How much of a choice are you going to have if you walk into your local Gunshop?

 

How many manufacturers, crossed with the bullet weights?

 

Cant say I have ever seen the amount of manufacturers making 6.5 as they do .243

 

I agree that there are a lot of weights for the 6.5 as there are .243/6MM but not as many commercially available, as if you reloaded.

 

Also, how much is 6.5 compared to .243? If you shoot a lot of foxes or Deer for that matter then it gets expensive, though with Premium .243 over £1 a round, not cheap either.

 

Im not knocking the Calibre, shot it myself and it dropped like a stone, expressing my opinion that it will depend on Cost and availability of what the guy's local gunny will stock.

 

Regards

SS

 

i forgot to say that if i was reloading then i would get 6.5x55 if i wanted to shoot factory ammo only i would get the 243