.223 custom??

[dickyboy 1]

Starting to toy with the idea of getting a 222 or 223 rifle and would like it to be a good one that i can really enjoy using(an investment as such) Who is recommended to build a semi custom rifle? blueprinting etc

 

So can any one help?!

Which rifles to start from? as a base?

1. Who can build them?

2.What calibre?

3. what stock, manufacturers?

4. What should/needs to be done, blueprinting, bedding etc(whats neccassary, don't want to waste money)

5. Heavy barrel or not? does it affect accuracy for fox shooting or just targets?

If heavy is the way forward what weight would a rifle work out at? what sort of difference?

6 what twist rate?

7. Arnold jewell trigger, are they worth it?

8. any other opinions on the subject

 

 

Thanks for all opinions in advance

Edited March 2, 2008 by dickyboy

[SNAP SHOT 194]

http://www.roedale-psg.de/GB/index.htm

 

check these out they seem to be good, from what i hear from fellow shooters.

[garyw 0]

DICKYBOY.

if your having a custom rifle built for foxing and a little target work i[and this is personell]would not have one chambered in 222/223.the expense for a custom job will not justify those calibres.you want to go 6br if you want to shoot 65gn plus bulletts for longe range work.22br for up to 350 yds,20 br for same any 20 calibre rifle on the custom scene will do to 300-350 yds.even 22-250AI for long range.as for actions why get a blueprint job when a custom will cost a bit more.

barrels any good barrel from shilen-pac- nor, kreiger bartlien. will do the job plenty of stocks to choose from.

you fist port of call would be a top rifle builder get some ideas of his work and any reccomendations he has for your needs.

plan it thorougly you want it right first time.

where are you based find a good rifle builder near to you.to be honest there are only 7or 8 very good rifle builders in this country that i would give my or any one elses money to.research is needed.

good luck

[dickyboy 1]

this is my first research stage........just wanting to get ideas of what people use, think etc

 

My school of thought is why buy a factory rifle then add on a decent stock as i'm not made to fit average stocks, very long and skinny..lol then have it bedded etc, why not pay a little more to start with and be really happy

 

How much is a custom job? over a refined factory rifle?

 

why not in 223/222?

 

and i'm based near guildford in surrey, any rifle builders near here, and who in the country do you recommend?

[Guest baldie]

Dicky, for what you want to do, a .223 would be fine. I assume you are new shooter?

A .223 with a 1 in 8" twist is perfectly capable of driving a 77 grain bullet accuratly to 600 yards for target work, and thats the top end of this calibre.

Ok, if you want something a little more exotic, then go for some of the others mentioned, but then you are into serious case prep work, and probarbly some fireforming etc.

I specialise in building custom remington actioned guns.I have brand new actions on the shelf, saving the customer buying a complete gun, and throwing half of it away.They come fully blueprinted, that means the action threads are recut, the reciever face, recut, the bolt abuttments, recut, and the bolt lugs recut, and handlapped to the abuttments. Then the bolt face is recut, all the above, are recut to the actions blueprinted centreline.Then the bolt raceways are fully polished, and the bolt cocking ramps too. Then a border "archer" barrel is fitted, along with a custom recoil lug.

This gives a full custom barrelled action, available at the price of £850.....there arent many custom actions available at that price.

Then all you do is pick a stock, a trigger , and yes, jewell are the best, i have two, and associated bits and pieces, like which rail, do you want/need a magazine system etc.

To give you an idea, most customers get a full blown custom gun for around the £1500 mark. heres a couple, the top one is mine.

 

 

and here,s my last rifle i built for myself, but this is a lot more specialised, and wouldn,t leave much change from four grand.

 

 

If you want recomendations on top quality smiths, here are a few.

Steve Bowers, who must be down near you

mike Norris

Steve Kershaw, who is up near me at east yorks

norman Clarke at rugby

callum ferguson in scotland

pete walker in west yorks

These are all top grade smiths with prices to match. There are others, but i wont recommend them.

We are in barnsley.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

BALDIE your making me drool, Do you build alot of centrefire rifles, And whats the policy on shipping to ireland,

[Guest baldie]

We are building more and more every week buddy, infact with our rimfires, its got to the stage where we are struggling to cope, and there,s three of us in the workshop. We do ship to ireland, but i,m fairly sure its only the north.However we do have very friendly dealers there, who i,m sure could arrange on going transport within the emerald isle.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

So in theory you do and you don't, As with shipping to the dealers then the price is jacked up so they take a nice cut, But i might look into it a bit more sometime. oh and sorry to bother you but is remmy actions all you build on?

If i was going to deal it would be for something like another .243, or .308, thank's SS.

[Guest baldie]

No mate, we dont go through other dealers, so they can make a nice cut....they usually charge the industry standard £25 to cover rfd to rfd transfers.I would expect them to cover their transport costs and paperwork , thats only fair.

We shipped a red dot sight to eire recently, and had a full dept of trade enquiry, and a real handslapping for it.We will not ship anything except stocks within the eu anymore....its not worth it.

We build on all actions available, but can only obtain remington in the standard type of actions as new.However we have some lawtons coming, from the states, they are an upmarket version of the remmy, and we also have some surgeons coming too, which are an out and out tactical action.If you happen to get target sports, its the one vince built a tactical rifle for Rob Hunter on....i see this gun shoot regularly, and its a belter. Have you an action in mind?

[dickyboy 1]

I only shoot to about 300yards regularly, more than that and a fox is a very small target!! I like the no recoil and quietness of 222/223, never shot a 223 mind you but have heard there much the same.........i have shot a fair bit but am relatively new to shooting, shot 350+ foxes in the last 20months though.

 

THings i like the sound of if i can pick your brains please baldie is- (now i repeat i'm fairly new to this)

1 Short bolt throw as in pull back length and degree that you have to lift the bolt, I shoot a ruger m77 mk2 and the bolt handle rubs the scope so no scope covers for me

2 Stiff well fitted stock, was swaying to mcmillan as they seem to be raved about, would have to be synthetic though

3 Very flat shooting for quick shots out to 200yards......the 222 with a 50g nosler is straight at them, what bullet/calibre will do this and then shoot well to 300/350(thats about my biggest field

4 as i walk everywhere weight is an issue, but if heavy barrel is really that much better should i just lump it???

5 i think i'd want a jewell trigger, which actions work with it

6 magazine is a definate and drop out if possible

7 At the moment i attach a harris bipod to a swivel stud but have had to quiksteel it in as it pulled out.......what sort of rails are there and what do you recommend

 

 

I do like that first rifle, is it a wild dog and are you from SYSS??

 

Sorry for so many questions but i'll be doing this only once so wanna get it right

Thank you in advance

[woz 260]

mike norris every time...he's a master at what he does....he will build you a rifle to your budget and load develop it. his customer service is second to none...he is a shooter through and through..........if you want decent advice and no b*ll shit he is your man.........one word of caution he is busy and dosnt suffer fools....

[Guest baldie]

I only shoot to about 300yards regularly, more than that and a fox is a very small target!! I like the no recoil and quietness of 222/223, never shot a 223 mind you but have heard there much the same.........i have shot a fair bit but am relatively new to shooting, shot 350+ foxes in the last 20months though.

 

THings i like the sound of if i can pick your brains please baldie is- (now i repeat i'm fairly new to this)

1 Short bolt throw as in pull back length and degree that you have to lift the bolt, I shoot a ruger m77 mk2 and the bolt handle rubs the scope so no scope covers for me

2 Stiff well fitted stock, was swaying to mcmillan as they seem to be raved about, would have to be synthetic though

3 Very flat shooting for quick shots out to 200yards......the 222 with a 50g nosler is straight at them, what bullet/calibre will do this and then shoot well to 300/350(thats about my biggest field

4 as i walk everywhere weight is an issue, but if heavy barrel is really that much better should i just lump it???

5 i think i'd want a jewell trigger, which actions work with it

6 magazine is a definate and drop out if possible

7 At the moment i attach a harris bipod to a swivel stud but have had to quiksteel it in as it pulled out.......what sort of rails are there and what do you recommend

 

 

I do like that first rifle, is it a wild dog and are you from SYSS??

 

Ok buddy, i,ll do my best.

 

All short actions have virtually the same bolt travel, but a ruger has a higher bolt lift angle, and an odd shaped bolt, causing the problem you now have.A remmy doesn,t, especially when fitted with a badger handle.

Mcmillans are excellent, i have two a5,s on different guns [the bottom pic is an a5] but they are heavy. If weight is an issue, a wilddog would suit you better, as they are largely made from carbon fibre.Mcmillan are currently on around 7 months delivery too.

If you want a flat shooter, go with a .223 [10% more power than a .222] and run 40-45 grain v-max through it....it will be as flat as a witches tit !

Heavy barrels...hmmm. Strike a compromise, as a heavy barrel does aid accuracy...they are stiffer. I would go one of two routes...either a remington pss profile, then flute it, or maybe a remmy varmint profile, unfluted [slightly lighter than a pss barrel] neither are mega fat, but a good compromise between weight and stiffness.

Jewell triggers only fit remingtons and rpa,s.

We work mainly with remmy,s because there is just so much stuff available for them, but can fit you up with anything within reason.

Magazines...again, so much available for a remmy footprint. The one on the top pic is actually a HS precision floorplate, and ten round mag in .308.They dont do a ten in .223, but they do a flush fitting 5 rounder, thats detachable, and nice...excellent for a hunting gun, and 5 rounds is plenty.

If you really want a ten, we are just making a floorplate that is similar to the badger one, and this takes an accuracy international 10 shot .308 mag, that i can convert to hold around 15 rounds in .223, but these stick out a fair way.

I wouldn,t bother with a rail personally, a properly fitted, machine stud will never come out, as its locked in from the back, and a whole lot cheaper.

The first rifle is indeed a wilddog, its a tactical thumbhole in viper 01 paint, and yes, i am the gunsmith at SYSS.

 

Hope this helps you buddy.

[dickyboy 1]

Thaank you very much again baldie...........I have used you before for my 10/22 and what a lovely gun it is too, thank you for that!!

 

Is there any chance you could show some more photos of what you talked about as in the heavy barrel profiles and the blt lifted but not withdrawn on the remmy, hard to picture what your saying

 

A 5 round mag would be ideal don't want more things to bump into!!!!!

 

People have said custom action to me, is this a route you'd suggest or go the improved factory route?

Are Wildog stocks as stiff as mcmillans which do you prefer??

 

Tahnks again, what a bloody minefield

[Guest baldie]

Sorry buddy, but i dont have any more pics. Ruger bolts foul scopes, remmy bolts dont, its down to the ball angle on the ruger, hard to describe, but simple once seen. People always say, go the custom route for actions....its easy to say it, when you arent paying for it...no? A trued remington action, is as true as any custom action ever made. Think about it. You cannot get any "truer" than 100% true. Because we have just the new actions, we basically throw the blueprinting in, with the fully barrelled price for nothing. Most firms charge £250 for it, and you have to buy a full rifle to get the action.This makes a blueprinted remmy action, getting on for £800 - £1000 most places, we can do a fully blueprinted new action, fitted with a quality custom barrel, for £850. This is why people say, get a custom action. We have 50 Lawton actions due shortly, if you prefer, they are remington footprint, and accept mag systems, they still need a trigger and rail etc, and these will be in the 7-800 quid area i would think...just another option. Or maybe a surgeon tactical action, at a similar price, or you can have an rpa, again at a similar price too.

I have both stocks, and would go for a wilddog on a hunting gun, mcmillan on a target rifle, as they are heavier.Neither is stiffer than the other as far as i can tell, i personally like them both, they are just...different.

[jamie g 17]

Sorry buddy, but i dont have any more pics. Ruger bolts foul scopes, remmy bolts dont, its down to the ball angle on the ruger, hard to describe, but simple once seen. People always say, go the custom route for actions....its easy to say it, when you arent paying for it...no? A trued remington action, is as true as any custom action ever made. Think about it. You cannot get any "truer" than 100% true. Because we have just the new actions, we basically throw the blueprinting in, with the fully barrelled price for nothing. Most firms charge £250 for it, and you have to buy a full rifle to get the action.This makes a blueprinted remmy action, getting on for £800 - £1000 most places, we can do a fully blueprinted new action, fitted with a quality custom barrel, for £850. This is why people say, get a custom action. We have 50 Lawton actions due shortly, if you prefer, they are remington footprint, and accept mag systems, they still need a trigger and rail etc, and these will be in the 7-800 quid area i would think...just another option. Or maybe a surgeon tactical action, at a similar price, or you can have an rpa, again at a similar price too.

I have both stocks, and would go for a wilddog on a hunting gun, mcmillan on a target rifle, as they are heavier.Neither is stiffer than the other as far as i can tell, i personally like them both, they are just...different.

 

the wilddog stocks are they only out for the remmingtons mate ? or do they do them for other rifles like sako ?