Fancy treadle on"Old" trap

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

12 hours ago, comanche said:

 foot pegs for depressing the spring.

This has been suggested, mate. However, aside from that being a first, for Any large trap ~ though, god knows, what ever it is, it's a first anyway! At least in my own, not inconsiderable, experience.

I'm not happy with the reasoning there. America came up with (basically) 'G Clamps' for their Bow springed bear traps. England used sliding collars on their Flat springs .....

And that's when it hit me: There is no such collar on your trap. Nor does there appear to be on the double sprung one.

Okay. So, taking it this was the same maker? Has he come up with something? Only, those springs are forged. Yeah? If he'd wanted something to tread on, would he not have forged that on when he formed the springs?

Then, let's look at the actual facts of it: Ye have a perfectly good spring there. Just like all the other traps. We've all set a gin trap before. Ye use ye hand, ye foot or ye knee to depress the spring, depending on the force required.

Wouldn't instinct ~ and experience ~ suggest ye stand on one of those springs? Lift ye foot. Place it on the spring. Lower ye weight. If need be, even hopping on with the other foot, lending ye whole weight to the exercise.

Not a fun experience, granted. But, doable. Much more intuitive than straddling the spring, to get ones hands, knees ..... Hang on! Naah! Fukk That! Ye'd end up with vital body parts exposed to the space between those fukking great jaws! Right where they close completely too!

And, it now occurs to me: What the fukk ye gonna do now?!? There's a thought, isn't it? Kneeling, Or stood there, keeping this big spring down. Fukk off big jaws have flopped open. Your move, Sherlock! And there ain't no collar ....! (If there was, it'd be behind and under ye!)

  See? A very wise Trap Collector taught me this, long ago. Think about whast happens when ye do this. How does that work? What's it cause to happen? Where's it get ye? ..... Right down to how does the trap trap something. And, what happens when it does.

Now, my fellow thinker has been banging on about the inverted 'L' shaped 'hooks' visible on the near side of the second trap? He's likening these to the safety catches found on European traps. German, most specifically.

Must admit, I didn't much fancy the idea. 1. Why are they so precisely facing as they are? Considering they had to be made loose enough that they easily swivelled round in ones finger tips. I know this shit, because I've personally handled plenty of such traps)

So, did some OCD museum member set them both so dead straight? Or, are they for another purpose entirely and actually set solid in that position? Dunno.

And, 2. Why do they only appear on One of the traps??? Both traps have those stuck on, sticking out, rather well engineered bits. Only one has any possible partner pieces visible.

It's a fukking head wreck, isn't it?!

[comanche 2,799]

7 hours ago, Ken's Deputy said:

This has been suggested, mate. However, aside from that being a first, for Any large trap ~ though, god knows, what ever it is, it's a first anyway! At least in my own, not inconsiderable, experience.

I'm not happy with the reasoning there. America came up with (basically) 'G Clamps' for their Bow springed bear traps. England used sliding collars on their Flat springs .....

And that's when it hit me: There is no such collar on your trap. Nor does there appear to be on the double sprung one.

Okay. So, taking it this was the same maker? Has he come up with something? Only, those springs are forged. Yeah? If he'd wanted something to tread on, would he not have forged that on when he formed the springs?

Then, let's look at the actual facts of it: Ye have a perfectly good spring there. Just like all the other traps. We've all set a gin trap before. Ye use ye hand, ye foot or ye knee to depress the spring, depending on the force required.

Wouldn't instinct ~ and experience ~ suggest ye stand on one of those springs? Lift ye foot. Place it on the spring. Lower ye weight. If need be, even hopping on with the other foot, lending ye whole weight to the exercise.

Not a fun experience, granted. But, doable. Much more intuitive than straddling the spring, to get ones hands, knees ..... Hang on! Naah! Fukk That! Ye'd end up with vital body parts exposed to the space between those fukking great jaws! Right where they close completely too!

And, it now occurs to me: What the fukk ye gonna do now?!? There's a thought, isn't it? Kneeling, Or stood there, keeping this big spring down. Fukk off big jaws have flopped open. Your move, Sherlock! And there ain't no collar ....! (If there was, it'd be behind and under ye!)

  See? A very wise Trap Collector taught me this, long ago. Think about whast happens when ye do this. How does that work? What's it cause to happen? Where's it get ye? ..... Right down to how does the trap trap something. And, what happens when it does.

Now, my fellow thinker has been banging on about the inverted 'L' shaped 'hooks' visible on the near side of the second trap? He's likening these to the safety catches found on European traps. German, most specifically.

Must admit, I didn't much fancy the idea. 1. Why are they so precisely facing as they are? Considering they had to be made loose enough that they easily swivelled round in ones finger tips. I know this shit, because I've personally handled plenty of such traps)

So, did some OCD museum member set them both so dead straight? Or, are they for another purpose entirely and actually set solid in that position? Dunno.

And, 2. Why do they only appear on One of the traps??? Both traps have those stuck on, sticking out, rather well engineered bits. Only one has any possible partner pieces visible.

It's a fukking head wreck, isn't it?!

Except the "foot rests" or whatever they are look to've been fixed on to the spring as separate parts. 

  This makes sense .

The spring needs to flex  , hold  and release energy.  The " pegs "need to be rigid.

The components would've each required different blacksmithing techniques ,   metals of differing composition and tempering treatments  .

That's  if the spur things are foot pegs. 

Knowing just how strong those springs really are would probably give a clue as to what was required to exert the required  setting pressure. Maybe it was a two person job?   Removing an irate cripple from the trap probably wasn't a single  handed affair after all.

Ok  semi- lightbulb moment. What if the spur/ peg/ sprue thingies  were there to give purchase to a long (forked?) lever that depressed the spring?

 

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

32 minutes ago, comanche said:

 What if the spur/ peg/ sprue thingies  were there to give purchase to a long (forked?) lever that depressed the spring?

This too has been suggested to me. Based on what the krauts came up with, for use on their own big traps.

My only response is that I've never, ever seen such a tool. Nor even heard reference to ones existence or use. No you tube videos are out there demonstrating one. [/iron]

I'd also ask why we've never found mention of such a thing with the countless, British made, 'Big Game' traps. In fact; Why might it be that both these (Same maker) man traps have these bits. Whilst No big game trap ever made demonstrates them?

I'm afraid we'll just keep going round in ever decreasing circles here. It's like attempting 'Pest Control' through the keyboard. It's no good. Ye have to Be There.

Staring at one (Bad!) shot of Something on a trap? It's a bit like looking at a forum post: " I've got a hole in my property. How do I kill what's caused it? "

Get a hard hat, hi viz and clip board. Get down to Rye and announce yeself as from the 'Man Trap Dept.' and say ye need to check the dimensions of that one. Get us some good, clear shots of the parts. All angles. With measurements

 

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Could be a doobree for a wottsit, Sid

Sadly, I don't think we'll Ever find out, by sitting here trying to discuss a vague, two dimensional image.

I mean, I feel I'm looking at a screw heads slot. What the hell's That all about? Anyone explain to me what it has a screw for?

If ye don't think it's a screw; What's Your take on it? Malaysian Black Leopard? God?

See; When Jack Hargreaves ended his programme by dumping a lump of wood with some rusted metal attached onto his table, asking  " What do ye think That was used for? ", we at least got a decent look at the thing.

We simply need more visual information to work with.

[OTC 8]

It’s a purpose made, original locking jaw humane man trap. Made by Nunn of Hertford. The scroll ‘plate’ is original and was made that way to avoid the poacher’s testing the ground ahead with a pole. There are locking parts to the top of the jaws which you can see; the spring when raised locates a spring loaded pin that goes into the jaws to prevent them opening.

Thereyou go -your mystery solved

 

OTC

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

On 02/05/2022 at 11:13, Ken's Deputy said:

Top one's a purpose made man trap. Don't know why they put treads like that on them. But, they did. Possibly to make them harder to detect when playing D&D.

 

41 minutes ago, OTC said:

The scroll ‘plate’ is original and was made that way to avoid the poacher’s testing the ground ahead with a pole.

Lovely! Cheers. As I suggested then? (I'm guessing ye've never played D&D? )