Educating The Public About Airgunning

[John Stott 202]

Great Info John

 

I'm just about to join a gun club....there is a waiting list!!!! Looking forward to it

Thank you. Pity theres a waiting list, try some HFT or pure airgun clubs, usually they are happy for as many members as they can get. Pure gun clubs, ie all calibers can have waiting time, mainly because many join to ultimately gain an FAC, its the only route for many.

[clabedoo 59]

A mate of mine - who has a big garden - has a CCTV system (cheap straight onto an overwritten SD Card) set up so when he zeros he can evidence his lawful behavior.

Wish my garden was big enough.

He has had one visit from colleagues as a result of a complaint - he wont get any more visits I would suggest.

Something that has to be remembered amongst this is that an Anti-social Behaviour Order is always an option as is a civil injunction. Do you really need all that hassle even if you defend it successfully?

Previous posts above got it spot on - talk to the neighbhours and educate them - pro-active steps are surely better than a re-active defence to the machinations of those who are unaware.

Just saying "...its my right....I am not breaking the law..." helps no-one least of all those of us that enjoy our sport. Consideration of others in all aspects of our sport cannot be a bad thing can it?

Of course you cant legislate for those that storm over to challenge you when you are out on your perm, but politeness and firmness usually work in most aspects of life don't they?

[John Stott 202]

A mate of mine - who has a big garden - has a CCTV system (cheap straight onto an overwritten SD Card) set up so when he zeros he can evidence his lawful behavior.

Wish my garden was big enough.

He has had one visit from colleagues as a result of a complaint - he wont get any more visits I would suggest.

Something that has to be remembered amongst this is that an Anti-social Behaviour Order is always an option as is a civil injunction. Do you really need all that hassle even if you defend it successfully?

Previous posts above got it spot on - talk to the neighbhours and educate them - pro-active steps are surely better than a re-active defence to the machinations of those who are unaware.

Just saying "...its my right....I am not breaking the law..." helps no-one least of all those of us that enjoy our sport. Consideration of others in all aspects of our sport cannot be a bad thing can it?

Of course you cant legislate for those that storm over to challenge you when you are out on your perm, but politeness and firmness usually work in most aspects of life don't they?

I think you make very salient points. However, I still maintain we should not just roll over. As for injunctions, thats civil, and the cost is around £1000 for starters. If anyone takes one out they have to prove their case. I reiterate, the law is actually on the shooters side. Nothing wrong with being assertive, and polite, but assertive. "They", ie antis, will chip away year after year. Look at Scotland, it is going to happen. The police themselves are dreading regulation there, it is going to be impossible to enforce.

Stay polite yes, however do not be a doormat.

[clabedoo 59]

 

A mate of mine - who has a big garden - has a CCTV system (cheap straight onto an overwritten SD Card) set up so when he zeros he can evidence his lawful behavior.

Wish my garden was big enough.

He has had one visit from colleagues as a result of a complaint - he wont get any more visits I would suggest.

Something that has to be remembered amongst this is that an Anti-social Behaviour Order is always an option as is a civil injunction. Do you really need all that hassle even if you defend it successfully?

Previous posts above got it spot on - talk to the neighbhours and educate them - pro-active steps are surely better than a re-active defence to the machinations of those who are unaware.

Just saying "...its my right....I am not breaking the law..." helps no-one least of all those of us that enjoy our sport. Consideration of others in all aspects of our sport cannot be a bad thing can it?

Of course you cant legislate for those that storm over to challenge you when you are out on your perm, but politeness and firmness usually work in most aspects of life don't they?

I think you make very salient points. However, I still maintain we should not just roll over. As for injunctions, thats civil, and the cost is around £1000 for starters. If anyone takes one out they have to prove their case. I reiterate, the law is actually on the shooters side. Nothing wrong with being assertive, and polite, but assertive. "They", ie antis, will chip away year after year. Look at Scotland, it is going to happen. The police themselves are dreading regulation there, it is going to be impossible to enforce.

Stay polite yes, however do not be a doormat.

 

Yes civil injunctions do cost money but the antis have some backing just like we do and remember the burden of proof is not set at the same level as a criminal offence, ie rather than beyond reasonable doubt it is set at "....on the balance of probabilities...." So for example the question the court may have to ask themselves is; "Is it more likely than not that the respondant (you) firing his gun in his back garden causes the claimant (the anti) to feel alarmed or distressed?" Guess what someone with little countryside experience may answer to this question. I agree we should not roll over at all indeed the antis are happy to buy force fed meat in poly bags from the supermarket (I generalize but the majority do not live in huggy huggy communes). Whereas we (well me anyway) eat the stuff we shoot which is pretty much organic and free range by any definition. Education and as you say firm and polite is the way forward. Allow your emotions to get the better of you and you could end up on the wrong side of things. Easier said than done I know in some cases.

I am playing devil's advocate here in the endeavor of helping others to manage any situations they may find themselves in. The problem being if the "challenger" loses their temper there may not be a lot made of it; lose your temper, when as they will no doubt say, you were carrying a gun and you can see what kind of picture could be formed in the mind of someone who was not there.

Good practice - if you get an angry anti approaching you stop - unload your gun if applicable and place it out of reach, take out your phone begin recording, tell them you are recording and state your name, the time, the date and the location, then ask them to do the same and begin their objections again - you will be amazed at the instant change in behavior.

I am afraid no more What If type situations 'cos we could go on for years, the law by definition is subjective but you can do your best to make sure you are on the right side of it and just saying, "I ain't breaking the law so stuff you" helps no-one least of all yourself and the rest of us in the sport. (that's another generalization not a dig at anyone)

[John Stott 202]

 

 

A mate of mine - who has a big garden - has a CCTV system (cheap straight onto an overwritten SD Card) set up so when he zeros he can evidence his lawful behavior.

Wish my garden was big enough.

He has had one visit from colleagues as a result of a complaint - he wont get any more visits I would suggest.

Something that has to be remembered amongst this is that an Anti-social Behaviour Order is always an option as is a civil injunction. Do you really need all that hassle even if you defend it successfully?

Previous posts above got it spot on - talk to the neighbhours and educate them - pro-active steps are surely better than a re-active defence to the machinations of those who are unaware.

Just saying "...its my right....I am not breaking the law..." helps no-one least of all those of us that enjoy our sport. Consideration of others in all aspects of our sport cannot be a bad thing can it?

Of course you cant legislate for those that storm over to challenge you when you are out on your perm, but politeness and firmness usually work in most aspects of life don't they?

I think you make very salient points. However, I still maintain we should not just roll over. As for injunctions, thats civil, and the cost is around £1000 for starters. If anyone takes one out they have to prove their case. I reiterate, the law is actually on the shooters side. Nothing wrong with being assertive, and polite, but assertive. "They", ie antis, will chip away year after year. Look at Scotland, it is going to happen. The police themselves are dreading regulation there, it is going to be impossible to enforce.

Stay polite yes, however do not be a doormat.

 

Yes civil injunctions do cost money but the antis have some backing just like we do and remember the burden of proof is not set at the same level as a criminal offence, ie rather than beyond reasonable doubt it is set at "....on the balance of probabilities...." So for example the question the court may have to ask themselves is; "Is it more likely than not that the respondant (you) firing his gun in his back garden causes the claimant (the anti) to feel alarmed or distressed?" Guess what someone with little countryside experience may answer to this question. I agree we should not roll over at all indeed the antis are happy to buy force fed meat in poly bags from the supermarket (I generalize but the majority do not live in huggy huggy communes). Whereas we (well me anyway) eat the stuff we shoot which is pretty much organic and free range by any definition. Education and as you say firm and polite is the way forward. Allow your emotions to get the better of you and you could end up on the wrong side of things. Easier said than done I know in some cases.

I am playing devil's advocate here in the endeavor of helping others to manage any situations they may find themselves in. The problem being if the "challenger" loses their temper there may not be a lot made of it; lose your temper, when as they will no doubt say, you were carrying a gun and you can see what kind of picture could be formed in the mind of someone who was not there.

Good practice - if you get an angry anti approaching you stop - unload your gun if applicable and place it out of reach, take out your phone begin recording, tell them you are recording and state your name, the time, the date and the location, then ask them to do the same and begin their objections again - you will be amazed at the instant change in behavior.

I am afraid no more What If type situations 'cos we could go on for years, the law by definition is subjective but you can do your best to make sure you are on the right side of it and just saying, "I ain't breaking the law so stuff you" helps no-one least of all yourself and the rest of us in the sport. (that's another generalization not a dig at anyone)

 

No digs taken friend. I am lucky yes, my own land and luckily a country bumpkin who lives in shooting country. I said elsewhere a few weeks ago. I now carry an iphone with me at all times for the very reason of recording anyone or anything should the need arise. Self preservation or prudence, I have seen antis at work both on hunts and shoots. They generally are a cowardly and underhand bunch. Recent cases have shown the illegal practices adopted by even "respectable" organisations to further their agendas, did I mention RSPB?

We can what if until the cows come home I agree. Being prepared is the answer, also covering your rear.

Moral here I think, we have no friends other than other shooters.

[clabedoo 59]

Moral here I think, we have no friends other than other shooters.

 

Yes exactly and we should stick together. I am happy to offer advice wherever I can but yes as you say the cows will be well back in the barn before we can ever cover everything.

[Dr B 186]

Great chat chaps. I've had a few situations, but all in the midlands - none in the lakes (where I actually have all my permissions and have family / property up there). I have been firm and tried to be pragmatic and reasonable, but there is always one......

 

There was one chap, once, who would not listen to me that it was legal to shoot in my garden and it has no impact for him, etc etc, he just would not have it. Threatened me with the police three or four times. In the end, after trying to reason with him, I told to just ring them and lets get it over with. They never came. He let slip he simply does not like guns....I responded lucky for me the law is not geared for his opinions.

 

Shooting in gardens appears to be a real tension point in the WMs. However, I reckon on reflection a firm, but cordial response is often the right way.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dr B

[clabedoo 59]

Here is a smiler story for you.

A part of one of my perms is accessed via a remote layby and footpath - so I park and walk 50 feet to access the land through a gate.

I returned to the car one evening with a few coneys and was surprised to find a group of younger people in the layby.

I was fully legal - gun in case, unloaded etc

One of the group, a young lady and driver of the VW Golf that was illegally parked on the verge, decided to berate me for killing rabbits and carrying a gun in public. I allowed her to shout and scream at me for a bit and watched as the lads thought they better look the part in front of the female and began to posture around me a bit.

When she eventually ran out of breath I put the kit and bunnies in the car, while she and the lads followed. She got a second wind and said words to the effect that I should not be allowed to leave to the lads as she was going to call the police.

Well that was it I am afraid.

It went something like and I am paraphrasing here, Me "You want the police?" Girl "Yes" as she got out her phone. Me "Well here I am" I got out the badge, her face dropped, the lads' bottles all collectively smashed. Me "Now get back in your car and go away or I will do you for section 5 of the public order act, and parking a car within 12 feet of a highway. Oh and pick up all your Macdonalds shit as well or you can have a ticket for littering too"

And off they went with narey a word spoken. In fact scolded cat so much was she that when she drove away I momentarily thought about doing her for careless and inconsiderate driving for the way she almost sideswiped me.

[John Stott 202]

I think posturing youth are predictable. My answer to them is cadet corps. Also schools should, as many private do, have ranges and gun clubs. One of the biggest problems we face is ignorance. Our anti gun culture ensures that.

ACPO recently did shooting no favours either, everybody wants to score political points.

I always, always, point out a gun is a tool. Like a hammer, a tractor or a collie.

When the wag response comes, I reply I enjoy working dogs and driving tractors too.

A strange society we have created. Films and TV glorify gun culture, then, everyone bemoans the fact that kids want guns. Liberal do gooding luvvies jump all over it.

We are ruled by idiots and the lunatics run the hospital.

Rant over.

[David.evans 5,323]

Great thread lads

and good valid points

atb dave