Shotgun Slugs ?

[perthshire keeper 1,239]

The Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985

Where under Section 26 of the Act a shotgun is used the following must be complied

with;

Section 4 A shotgun of not less than 12 bore loaded with the following

ammunition;

(a) for shooting deer of any species, a single rifled non-spherical

projectile weighting not less than 380 grains (24.62 grams)

( for shooting deer of any species, a cartridge purporting to

contain not less than 550 grains (32.64 grams) of shot, none

of which is less than 0.286 inches (6.8 millimetres) in

diameter, that is to say SSG; or

© for shooting roe deer, a cartridge purporting to contain not

less than 450 grains (29.16 grams) of shot, none of which is

less than 0.203 inches (5.16 millimetres) in diameter, that is

to say AAA.

[CharlieT 32]

 

 

Don't know about Scotland but I believe it's illegal in England to shoot deer with a smooth bore shotgun under the 1991 Deer Act - Schedule 2. That would apply to slugs or shot.

 

I should have mentioned that above when I referenced deer.

 

I would think a rifled barrel does satisfy the act (subject to the necessary energy requirements being met), as it specifically prohibits "smooth bore" guns.

 

 

Legal in England under the exemption set out in section 7 of the Deer Act.

Edited April 3, 2014 by CharlieT

[Alsone 789]

 

 

 

Don't know about Scotland but I believe it's illegal in England to shoot deer with a smooth bore shotgun under the 1991 Deer Act - Schedule 2. That would apply to slugs or shot.

 

I should have mentioned that above when I referenced deer.

 

I would think a rifled barrel does satisfy the act (subject to the necessary energy requirements being met), as it specifically prohibits "smooth bore" guns.

 

 

Legal in England under the exemption set out in section 7 of the Deer Act.

 

 

Ahh. Hadn't seen that for England.

 

Considering everyone having a right to shoot is the occupier by the latest definition in the Firearms Guidelines, it renders Schedule 2 kind of pointless. (It recommends the definition in S27 Wildlife Act & Countryside Act 1981 be adopted).

[SportingShooter 0]

There is a thread somewhere about shotguns for deer. In the FAQ thread I think.

 

Always an interesting one but bottom line being you can in fairly restricted circumstances.

[CharlieT 32]

 

 

 

 

Don't know about Scotland but I believe it's illegal in England to shoot deer with a smooth bore shotgun under the 1991 Deer Act - Schedule 2. That would apply to slugs or shot.

 

I should have mentioned that above when I referenced deer.

 

I would think a rifled barrel does satisfy the act (subject to the necessary energy requirements being met), as it specifically prohibits "smooth bore" guns.

 

 

Legal in England under the exemption set out in section 7 of the Deer Act.

 

 

Ahh. Hadn't seen that for England.

 

Considering everyone having a right to shoot is the occupier by the latest definition in the Firearms Guidelines, it renders Schedule 2 kind of pointless. (It recommends the definition in S27 Wildlife Act & Countryside Act 1981 be adopted).

 

 

But interestingly the act is even more specific than that as it lists all the classes of people in addition to the occupier who may do so. This takes away any "grayness" in the term occupier. ACPO for example, say that an occupier is someone who has an interest in the land that is enforceable in law. The Home Office are of the view that "permission to shoot" is not a binding contract (the permission can be withdrawn at any time) and therefore does not make that class of person an occupier.

However, as I said, the Deer Act is most specific and does away with any ambiguity over the term occupier.

 

(4)The persons to whom this section applies are—

(a)the occupier of the land on which the action is taken;

(any member of the occupier’s household normally resident on the occupier’s land, acting with the written authority of the occupier;

(c)any person in the ordinary service of the occupier on the occupier’s land, acting with the written authority of the occupier; and

 

(d)any person having the right to take or kill deer on the land on which the action is taken or any person acting with the written authority of a person having that right

[Alsone 789]

I'm not sure where you got your Home Office view from as taken from the Home Office Firearms Guidelines November 2013 edition p.40 section 6.18:

 

 

The term “occupier” is not defined in the Firearms Acts, nor has a court clarified its meaning.

 

However, the Firearms Consultative Committee in their 5th Annual report recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 be adopted.

 

This states that “occupier” in relation to any land, other than the foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or fish.

 

 

..and section 6.19 then says:

 

 

6.19 In the absence of any firm definition for firearms purposes, it is suggested that this definition of “occupier” should be used.

 

On some occasions though, where the status of a certificate holder acting as an occupier is an issue, the chief officer may need to consider seeking the advice of counsel. Section 57(4) provides that “premises” shall include any land. The borrower may be of any age but an offence may be committed under section 22(3) if a minor under the age of 15 is not supervised by a person over 21 years of age.

 

So there's nothing 100% concrete this side of a change to the Firearms Act or a test case that decides against this, but you'd be very unlucky to find a Court ignoring the Home Office guidelines.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Alsone

[perthshire keeper 1,239]

I'm not sure where you got your Home Office view from as taken from the Home Office Firearms Guidelines November 2013 edition p.40 section 6.18:

 

 

The term “occupier” is not defined in the Firearms Acts, nor has a court clarified its meaning.

 

However, the Firearms Consultative Committee in their 5th Annual report recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 be adopted.

 

This states that “occupier” in relation to any land, other than the foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or fish.

 

 

..and section 6.19 then says:

 

 

6.19 In the absence of any firm definition for firearms purposes, it is suggested that this definition of “occupier” should be used.

 

On some occasions though, where the status of a certificate holder acting as an occupier is an issue, the chief officer may need to consider seeking the advice of counsel. Section 57(4) provides that “premises” shall include any land. The borrower may be of any age but an offence may be committed under section 22(3) if a minor under the age of 15 is not supervised by a person over 21 years of age.

 

So there's nothing 100% concrete this side of a change to the Firearms Act or a test case that decides against this, but you'd be very unlucky to find a Court ignoring the Home Office guidelines.

see thats the love of home office guidelines is know one knows for sure what the f**k is law and what is not...the sad thing is only a judge can say whats what....and ile tell you for nothing they will give you the max no matter how with in the guidelines you are if theirs even a slightest bit of doubt then they will bend you over and give you the best....