gist/kist traps

[david2363 42]

I was reading through my newly arrived "Working terrier yearbook" compilation and I noticed a few mentions of a rudimentary catch alive fox trap called a gist/kist trap.

Anyone got any info on this - I'm intrigued.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

I'm intrigued.

 

 

So am I, mate! Can't ye cite and quote for us, please? Provide a bit of context? Being as it'll be for educational purposes, there should, I believe, be no copyright infringement.

[david2363 42]

In the chapter on the old Welsh Fox hunter and trapper Leswyn Blucher (died 1940)

I quote " Leswyn was an expert in the use of the Gist trap"

and goes on to say

"Blucher would make his Fox traps as dry stone compartments,known locally as Gist traps, with which he bcame an expert. A modern day user of the same type of trap is John Park (Cumbria) and he knows them as the "Kist trap.

They would form part of the wall and the fox would knock over a stick to trap himself with a falling slate, being taken alive".

[woodga 170]

most probably working along the same lines as a figure 4 trap except the slate or stone traps the fox in the enclosed space now that sounds like hard work

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Oh jesus christ all f*ckin mighty; Ye've got me at it now! I've seen them! Thing is, my mind's telling my I've seen actual photographs. So that means it wasn't in any of my Carnegie books. I've just checked a couple of others liable to carry black and white shots and can't find it.

 

But, yeppers, far as I read of them; Basicly a larger, stone and slate built tunnel trap. OTC should be along and find this presently. He's younger than me and has a better memory and vast private library. I imagine he can come up with more. It's just the local names given them that threw me there.

[david2363 42]

If I've stumped you on this one Ditch , I'm gonna dine out on this for a long time

[OldTrapCollector 376]

But, yeppers, far as I read of them; Basicly a larger, stone and slate built tunnel trap. OTC should be along and find this presently. He's younger than me and has a better memory and vast private library. I imagine he can come up with more. It's just the local names given them that threw me there.

 

I do have both photos and a description somewhere in the library vaults Ditch - I will dig them out when I get chance and post them - I am away from my home pc and scanner at the moment

 

I cannot remember exactly but don't think the figure-4 stone deadfall is right though - I think it was a drop door stone and slate box trap if my memory serves me right.

 

Whichever it is I will have photos or pics somewhere

 

OTC

[moley 115]

 

But, yeppers, far as I read of them; Basicly a larger, stone and slate built tunnel trap. OTC should be along and find this presently. He's younger than me and has a better memory and vast private library. I imagine he can come up with more. It's just the local names given them that threw me there.

 

I do have both photos and a description somewhere in the library vaults Ditch - I will dig them out when I get chance and post them - I am away from my home pc and scanner at the moment

 

I cannot remember exactly but don't think the figure-4 stone deadfall is right though - I think it was a drop door stone and slate box trap if my memory serves me right.

 

Whichever it is I will have photos or pics somewhere

 

OTC

round here a kist trap is a wooden box ,probably about 3-4 ft long,6-8" square with a plate steel door at one end( for weight )and bars at the other end, the door is held up with string or wire and it goes out the top above the door to the end with the bars , a peg or toggle is attached to the end of the rope/wire and lightly jammed between the bars , a fox on entering will try to dig its way out and releases the peg, these traps are used at dens where the cubs and or vixen is in the place and all the holes are blocked up exept the ones with the kists in, some well known earths or dens are walled up so as to accept a kist trap and the kist is easily taken away,these are usually dens that are used year after year

never used one myself , but seen a few in action

[john b 38]

I recollect once seeing an old Yorkshire gamekeeper catch a Fox in a very ingenious and, I should think, ancient form of trap, which lie called a "kist," probably a corruption of chest. He had traced the animal into a hole amongst some rocks, just after a fall of snow, and barred it in by carefully walling up every means of egress.

 

This done, he levelled and roughly flagged a path seven or eight feet in length, and leading straight away from the hole at which the Fox had entered. Upon this path he built a substantial passage, nine or ten inches wide by twelve or thirteen in height, which narrowed somewhat abruptly at its outer end into a mere slit through which it was impossible for the prisoner to escape. About one-third of the distance from the end of the passage, built over the hole by which Reynard had entered his lair, the stones forming the sides and roof were so arranged as to allow a heavy slate to work up and down with ease in the form of a sluice. The slate had a hole through its upper part, and to this was tied a strong piece of string which was passed over a smooth stick arranged like a trestle close to the slate, so as to suspend it in a perfectly plumb position and thus allow it to work up and down with ease. The string then ran forward to another trestle placed almost directly over the outer end of the passage, and finally ended in a small brass ring which was passed over the end of a short piece of stick protruding horizontally from the slit. Directly the Fox came forward along the passage and began to sniff the fresh air and try to widen the slit by scratching, he put his foot on the inner end of the stick and at once so depressed it that the brass ring slipped off its opposite end and released the slate, which instantly fell and effectually barred retreat to his stronghold in the rocks.

 

Sourced from

http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/keacam/keacam0405.htm

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

If I've stumped you on this one Ditch , I'm gonna dine out on this for a long time

 

 

Only thing that's got me stumped is where the hell I saw the damn things, Dave. It was black and white photo's and all looking much as John's description reads. Slate door 'n all. Fact that OTC has the same shot's is verifying that it's likely in a book, rather than some obscure magazine article or pamphlet I may have aquired. Bugging the shit out of me why I can't put my finger on that damn book though!

 

OTC: I checked the little Shire book, mate. Not in that one. Certainly not in J. Bateman's books. Carneggie rather describes one, in " Practical Game Preservation ". That's under the heading of 'Taking Badgers'. No photo's though, of course. Nor is it in the little BASC booklet. Nothing like it in " The Booke of Engines ". I'm f*cked!

 

Where in hell have I seen photo's of the bloody thing then? This is doing my head in! What have I missed ~ and / or misplaced???

[OldTrapCollector 376]

Where in hell have I seen photo's of the bloody thing then? This is doing my head in! What have I missed ~ and / or misplaced???

 

I think it is in one of the clippings I have in my archives from some long passed publication that I have scanned and sent on to you but I will have to check to be sure. I think I know where to look

 

OTC

[OldTrapCollector 376]

As promised these are some line drawings of the Gist Hutch Trap from a book I have circa 1790. The trap was made entirely from stone with a sliding slate door at one or both ends and was employed to catch 'foxes and other vermin' by gamekeepers and warreners.

 

'It was made as a 4 sided stone trap with holes in the 'cover stone' to take the wooden mechanism for the trip plate. The cover stone was drilled with two or more shallow holes, 1 1/4" in diameter - in these holes were placed wooden posts which connected by strings or wires to the slate shutters'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this helps,

 

OTC

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Nope. I've seen actual photographs of the trap, Old. And it's now doing my f*cking head in Completely!

 

I've just sat here and combed through a load of old magazine articles I have. Then I went through my Gamekeeper & Countryside magazines (What a trip That was! Sadly; No shots).

 

This is really, Really messing with my mind, man. Where in hell have I seen those black and white shots of these slab and slate built traps ~ and even read a full description of how they were built and operated?!

 

Am I recalling something from a past life here?!

[OldTrapCollector 376]

Nope. I've seen actual photographs of the trap, Old. And it's now doing my f*cking head in Completely!

 

I've just sat here and combed through a load of old magazine articles I have. Then I went through my Gamekeeper & Countryside magazines (What a trip That was! Sadly; No shots).

 

This is really, Really messing with my mind, man. Where in hell have I seen those black and white shots of these slab and slate built traps ~ and even read a full description of how they were built and operated?!

 

Am I recalling something from a past life here?!

 

I have got B&W photographs of old figure 4 stone deadfalls Ditch (remember the article on Warreners I wrote for the Oz newsletter?) if they are the ones you have flickering around in the back of your memory???

 

OTC

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

No, mate. These were Black and White Photographs. They showed a Large, Stone Built Tunnel with a Sliding Door, probably made of Slate. Christ, I remember the poxy thing so well I can tell ye the entry was facing right to left!

 

Two more vague possibilities; One. I yet have a small plastic 'briefcase' stashed full of notes, letters and scraps. Haven't looked in it for a year. It's buried amongst the crates of traps. OR, Two. It's just possible someone else e mailed me such pictures, to ask or say something about them. And, being as it's not my scene, I may have replied and just deleted that e mail?

 

I don't really care about the trap or the pictures. I know what they're about. It's just wrecking my f*cking head trying to remember where along the long line I came to learn about the bloody things!

 

That and I'd Love to share those damn photo's!