HELP Needed weird

[the night hunter 130]

Hi Lads n lasses,

 

bit long but please read.

 

out for a lamp tonight on a local farm. not much about. went into first fiels rabbit on the fringes of the hedge. slipped the dog couple of turns and flopsy got away. dog came straight back. drove for couple of mins to have a sqweek for some foxes to shoot. nout there either. so went for a walk to find more rabbits. my pal slipped his whipet and my dog never pulled. here is where it starts:

 

my dog was dizzy on her feet swaying from side to side craining neck up and down, couldnt rekognise her name and was generally on another planet. she collapsed to the ground for 5 seconds (thought this was it) then she got up and had a runny shit which was a bit mucusy continued to weve back to the car so i carried her and put her on the back seat. drove back to my house to call the vet.(10 min drive). when i got back she was 100% Aok. as if she could go lamping again all in all episode lasted 20 mins..... what the hell happend any 1 ever experienced? in the 14 years of lurcher work i havent!

 

few points:

 

1) bitch is 1st cross bull greghound.

2) she is fit lamped 2/3 times week.

3)i didnt loose sight of her so she didnt bash herself.

4)no chance she has eaten anything.

5) diet 100%meat.

6) she is 6 years old.

 

really apreciate any information,

 

Thanks, J

[scalesntails 118]

Sounds like epilepsy or something. No idea if dogs can even suffer from it.

[CarraghsGem 92]

it sounds like your dogs epileptic (and yes dogs can be epileptic, small toy dogs more so than larger breeds)

[rocky1 942]

could be dierpetic

[sandymere 8,261]

Epilepsy would be the first thought and if so it will likely happen again. Keep a close eye and if it does in the near future then medication is likely needed, some dogs have an inherited predisposition to having an epileptic fit others may develop a problem causing the fits though the 1st is most common. The only other cause could be a sudden drop in blood glucose so adding a carb source to the diet to help top up reserves and aid store replenishment.

[the night hunter 130]

Thanks for the replys guys.

 

My mrs is epileptic and i can tell you it wasnt a fit.

 

spoke to a pal of mine who said she might get hypoglycemia think thats what you mentioned Sandy.

 

Apparently spaniels tend to suffer!

[Guest chook]

What was her eyes doing?

 

Couple of my girls suffer from occasional fits, dosent affect their health

but when they are fitting, their eyes flicker from side to side,they get a bit wobbly,

and have head tremors - they dont have meds.

 

Could be what sandy said, if it is - it might be worth you taking some Karo syrup

or honey out with you to rub on the gums, you need to keep rubbing on till the dog comes round,

dont force the dog to drink it, if it happens again i would probably get the vet to check it over

as it could be caused by something underlying.

[the night hunter 130]

What was her eyes doing?

 

Couple of my girls suffer from occasional fits, dosent affect their health

but when they are fitting, their eyes flicker from side to side,they get a bit wobbly,

and have head tremors - they dont have meds.

 

Could be what sandy said, if it is - it might be worth you taking some Karo syrup

or honey out with you to rub on the gums, you need to keep rubbing on till the dog comes round,

dont force the dog to drink it, if it happens again i would probably get the vet to check it over

as it could be caused by something underlying.

 

 

Her eyes were fine just a little glazed. best way to explain was drunk!

[oakey 57]

A mate of mine has a visla that had a similar thing whilst out ferreting at first we thought it was snake bite but it was more or less in the open we gave the dog some orange juice as it was the only liquid we had on us at the time but it did seem to work .Looking back i know think it may have been the sugar in the juice that brought the dog round i dont know if dogs can suffer diabetes but it looked very much like it to me .By the way that was 4 years ago and no signs of it since although my mate now carries a mars bar when working the dog.Good luck with your dog

[Guest chook]

What was her eyes doing?

 

Couple of my girls suffer from occasional fits, dosent affect their health

but when they are fitting, their eyes flicker from side to side,they get a bit wobbly,

and have head tremors - they dont have meds.

 

Could be what sandy said, if it is - it might be worth you taking some Karo syrup

or honey out with you to rub on the gums, you need to keep rubbing on till the dog comes round,

dont force the dog to drink it, if it happens again i would probably get the vet to check it over

as it could be caused by something underlying.

 

 

Her eyes were fine just a little glazed. best way to explain was drunk!

 

 

Probably a hypo then - the eyes can glaze over and the pupils Dilate

just take something out with you next time as a just incase.

[the night hunter 130]

What was her eyes doing?

 

Couple of my girls suffer from occasional fits, dosent affect their health

but when they are fitting, their eyes flicker from side to side,they get a bit wobbly,

and have head tremors - they dont have meds.

 

Could be what sandy said, if it is - it might be worth you taking some Karo syrup

or honey out with you to rub on the gums, you need to keep rubbing on till the dog comes round,

dont force the dog to drink it, if it happens again i would probably get the vet to check it over

as it could be caused by something underlying.

 

 

Her eyes were fine just a little glazed. best way to explain was drunk!

 

 

Probably a hypo then - the eyes can glaze over and the pupils Dilate

just take something out with you next time as a just incase.

 

 

yeh for sure thanks

[sandymere 8,261]

This is one I did in 2009 that might be useful though don't discount epilepsy to quickly in this instance..

 

 

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

 

It’s pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

 

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a “normal meal†an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.

.

The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

 

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

 

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

 

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considering.

[bill83 23]

i have seen it once before mate in a bull x dog and thought this is it finished, the dog has never don it since so iam told,

but i think the dog had drank from a nearby ditch whilst off the lead could it be chemicials sprayed on the fields.

[Wild Whippies 11]

There's a virus going round that I know a number of dogs have had. Symptoms aren't the classic diorrhea and/or vomiting and only clues we've had was the dogs acting odd, refusing food for 24hrs and poo with a small amount of mucus.

If your dog was suffering from this, and like I say the symptoms aren't obvious it maybe the dog has had a funny turn because of that.

 

Other possibilites:

I've seen dogs anoxic in racing. (a lack of oxygen to the brain) The fact you described the dog as drunk is very classic in it's appearance. When I've seen it occur the dog will stagger and stumble and depending on how severe drop into a faint. When they come round and recovered they show no ill effect. The dogs that have done it have been extremely excitable and been running a sprint. It's hard to explain on here the mechanics and folk may think I'm off my head but basically it's due to the dog forgetting to breath. Some dogs never do it again, some never seem to adapt. The commonest time I see it is in bends racing where the distance is slightly greater than the usual 150yd straight dash that the whippets are used to and it'll generally be young novice dogs first learning and going the distance on the bends.

 

Sandymere's comments about carbs and hypoglycemia is another I agree with. I have used Ty Gard with sucess with some dogs. However the one in my profile pik who was a bugger for cramping and used to have cramp with Tye Gard. The reason being I believe was because the sugar content would cause an insulin spike in his body bringing on severe cramping so it's not neccesarily suitable for all dogs.

The others worth considering is hypocalcemia and hyperkalemia. Electrolytes generally address this but most dogs do well off the likes of tinned tomatoes in their feed. I've had a dog suffer from hyperkalemia and have to say her situation was near fatal so think it's unlikely but it cannot be ruled out either. I should also mention the dog concerned was a bully whippet (whippet with double muscling or what's known as myostatin muscle related hypertrophy) These dogs have little , if any fat on them but an extremely high amount of large muscle mass. What's relevant here is that salts in their blood are better retained if there is some fat content in the dogs diet. So if there's none you may want to address this as well as giving tomatoes. This is also the dog that is very well managed with Tye Gard by the way (along with having a higher fat content and lower protein content in her feed compared to the racers)

 

Anything more severe like epilepsy, addisons, cushings, neurological disorders etc will generally make themselves known by further episodes and an increase in severity. What I would say is common things are common and would hope the other issues are more likely to be the cause than any of the severe one's I and others have mentioned.

[Rain 232]

i have haxd this with my dog

 

i now give him tomatos and suet in his food with a pound of mince and 400g of arden grange performance

 

and also two calcium and vit d tablets a day.because calcium ions are used in the break down of atp for the muscles to use and energy or summat like

that

 

this was suggested by richard torr and its seemed to of worked