Border Terriers

[Billyborder 0]

Well we have had all the standard knocking of Border Terriers on this thread.

 

If your dog does the job that you want it for that is all that matters!

 

In my too many years of working terriers underground to various types of vermin (old enough to remember going out as a kid digging black and whites legally) I have used most types of terriers.

 

Seen some brilliant Russells, lakies and blacks - also seen a fair percentage of crap ones.

 

I've also seen some brilliant Borders and again I've seen some that aren't worth the name of a working terrier.

 

However a good Border is equal to any of the other types - a good Border will generally be very hard and will have foxes for fun.

 

If you ever get the chance to see a good one take it - see how many times the fox is left with a broken bottom jaw!

 

I'm not into knocking any 'type' of terrier - there will always be crap just as there will always be good.

 

I'm digging regularly with Borders but am not type blind - it doesn't matter what a good dog looks like, if it does the job that is all that matters.

 

The same problems that have already been stated with Borders is coming to all types if it is not already here.

 

Keep working your dogs - it is up to you not to let them them become little white/brown/black dogs on the end of a lead.

[wink hound 0]

dont think anyone was actually knocking borders, more the fact that these are not actuallyt really working.

 

as i have said terriers are made to go to ground and work, thats what makes them terriers, breeding off stuff that dosent is only going to ruin a line. the reason they are good at bushing is because of there roots as earth dogs, so use them for bushing, just get one from real working lines, and keep terrier lines that are still able to do the job they are made for.

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 16, 2008 by oneredtrim

[nelson 0]

I dont think there is anything wrong with people wanting to work Borders, its the breeding of them and filling the world with more surplus that have just been bred for the sake of it.

 

Got to agree there Shay and the same can be said for all working breeds and not just terriers. i was going to mate my black bitch in Autumn but after heeding various people's advice, i decided not to and am glad i didn't.

 

I am honestly thinking off breeding off my Border bitch and letting the pups go to working homes only for the price of rearing if i can find the right dog. She is kc registered out of Jack Prices stuff but the pups wont be and i wont be paying a stud fee either.........................any one got a good dog for use , and anyone after a working Border ?

[Guest shay]

I know Nuv on these sites works his Borders and they work well, I know a few other lads who work borders too, I have also dug to Borders but you will find that the lads who work their Borders don't spew out litter after litter. I would still stand by the fact that the vast percentage of Borders are useless as earth dogs, and as for bushing, surely a good beddy would be more effective for bushing AND catching.

[wink hound 0]

as i have said terriers are made to go to ground and work, thats what makes them terriers, breeding off stuff that dosent is only going to ruin a line.

 

How did the Wheaten still manage to fall under this nomenclature?

 

i dont know in short, the same as the irish and kerry blue, i can only assume that at some point these were sizable enough to get to ground on quarry, it hasent taken long for the fox terrier to become too big through poor breeding.

 

the defontion of terrier comes from terra meaning earth and chein meaning dog,so "earth dog"

 

if they werent earth dogs there would be no need for any of them to be shaped as they are or have the temprement they do.

 

i have worked borders by the way, and have to say only ever got on with one particualr one. but thats not the point its a wider topic of breeding off none earth working dogs which defis the terrier way.

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 16, 2008 by oneredtrim

[ROZ 0]

Well the title of this thread should of read "are Borders any good for earth work" .The lad puts up some pics of his litter and a few folk jump in slagging borders off anybody with common sense knows what as happened to a once good working breed which is also happening to other terrier breeds. KC and owners of borders have ruined their working ability. Anybody that still manage to work their borders (earth work) good luck to them.

[wink hound 0]

oneredtrim,

 

again i dont know enough about the aridale breed, due to the fact that they arent real earth dogs, i have spoken to people who do work them to ground on sutibel quarry, like coyote, i suspect that again a breed has been adaopted to use because of its roots as a hunting earth dog, and its skill at it.

 

i have to say they very few people would think of an airdale, wheaten or kerry blue if the words working terriers were mentioned, there are exeptions to every rule, i do think that at some point they would have been a sutible size to work quarry to ground tho.

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 16, 2008 by oneredtrim

[MJC 1]

Border pups 2 weeks old gone thursday these are not K.C. Registered, i dont know what line they are from and will be going to working homes only for £150.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2007 by MJC

[sirbeesting 4]

You are better to use it for working rabbits than have it sat eating chocolates all day, the thing that gets up my nose is the selling of pups for extortionate amounts of money, if the people who were breeding them were genuinelly breeding for themselves then they would be giving away the surplus minus the papers. Borders shouldn't in my opinion be classed as a true working breed anymore and the messers that breed them should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

 

Jeff Fenorelli and Levi Oakes are the only people worth mentioning regarding working borders and they have both now passed away.

 

The rest is just show shite.

 

My opinion lads

its plain to see you don,t know marty gracey then mate he has cracking borders over the water,also mike hare's borders work well,reading all this shit reminds me while iv'e not been on for a while ,stick together lads there;s not much left .

[nuv 2]

Anyone who thinks they'll place a litter of Border pups to working homes will be in for a shock, I can tell you. Because of the 'slow to enter' 'KC shit' mentality, Borders have lost favour with working terrierfolk, which in turn has harmed the breed further still and if people don't take an interest now then the breed's working credentials will be lost forever, end of. There are good working dogs out there, KC and non KC, it's just a case of rooting them out. The stuff I breed goes to working homes wherever possible, sometimes with a caveat and others without. As for the slow to enter bit, it can be true sometimes, but I've seen terriers of all breeds shy away from work...a mate of mine was given a Lakeland by Dennis Barrow and it would not enter for love nor money...would fight like a demon, but no interest in earthwork whatsoever.

 

The stuff I breed I am generally happy with, and it doesn't win shows, but it works underground; Tuffty has a bitch I bred and he'll tell you what my stuff is like; I am not the only Border breeder who breeds working dogs, so it is out there, enough of it to maintain the breed as working type, but the often undeserved negativity it gets will kill it as a breed eventually. I think we'll see a similar scenario to the Lakelands, a distinct show type and distinct working type, but I could live with that as, I'll wager, would many other Border breeders/workers.

 

Nelson, you can use my dog if you want, provided the bitch is okay

 

One thing I will add though, while you lot are getting your knickers in a twist about Borders, the Russell is going the same way, show shite I believe somebody called earlier...'Parsons' I believe the KC called them...you ought to see the money they change hands for.

 

 

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/petplanet/breed...ell_Terrier.htm

 

http://www.epupz.co.uk/search/puppies_for_...ussell%20Parson

Edited February 4, 2007 by nuv

[Dawn B 212]

Pups look well, coming on lovely, having another myself in a few weeks, all show crap bred of course!

Dawn.

[Guest SJM]

Looking at this from a cynical point of view, you could actually say that threads like this show that the working Border Terrier is not yet ready to be consigned to the history books, or discarded as being "useless" and there are still people working them, albeit few and far between.

 

Hardly any of the breeds in the terrier group recognised by the KC are working dogs anymore, out of the 26 breeds, only a handful are still kept by some as working dogs, ie border, bedlington, lakeland, parson russell and soft coated wheaten. You do hear of fox terriers, glen of imaal and sometimes even cairns working but they are pretty rare. The further removed from their working roots a terrier becomes, the less people fight and bicker over them being bred for £££ and as pet dogs. When was the last time there was an argument about westies or scotties being ruined by show or pet breeders? I find these kind of threads fascinating, Im new to terriers having always had lurchers and Im interested to learn, but I am not going to kid myself on or anyone else, I got my dog to mess around above ground, maybe help with digging out rabbits at the most, I dont think he will ever get the chance to be a digging dog, but I think its better to do some work with a dog than none at all. The ban has meant that a lot of things we used to do with lurchers have changed, perhaps a ban on terrier work will come in time Lets hope not eh? but if it does, we might all end up in the same boat, rabbiters officially, poachers and criminals unofficially, not by choice but by the way the law has made us. Lets not loose sight of that, a working dog is by definition a dog which works and performs a useful function. My dog does that, so Im happy with him - lets all av a group hug