Good Black Dogs (Pattedales?) in the US?

[oranges 0]

Jonathan, did you not tell someone that Bruiser had only been dug to about 12 times. (this was after he went to the U.S.)

[DeanD 3]

AHAAA!! The truth comes out! But which truth are we to believe?

[OHIO STEVE 11]

AHAAA!! The truth comes out! But which truth are we to believe?

There ya go DEAN. There are usually 3-4 sides to every story. I have never seen Robert behave in any manner other than gentlemanly on the boards. But as I told him elsewhere I have been told many things concerning him. So who knows . As for jealousy, none here. Sell em for what you can get for em. I am a salesman, have been for 21+ years. I sell cookware ( believe it or not)and the average person spends between 2-3 thousand dollars on it. So who am I to condemn. I just think that with the terriers the primary concern becomes the profit rather than the quality. Or sometimes not even profit, just recovering the investment.Money has completely ruined the russells. a GOOD one is not that easy to find anymore. Some people do breed and raise em but the vast majority are useless and having their nuts bred off for big money. In the end, the dogs belong to whoever owns em. With that comes the right to sell em for whatever amount you can. It's your reputation and conscious(sp) you have to deal with, not mine.

[deadgame 58]

One more thing TODD... If you reread your own post it kind of makes the point of people trying to recoup their investment. YOU had to drive far and pay money for a dog so therefore you feel justified in charging others. As I have stated before, get what you can from who you can, thats your right. But seriously how many people are gonna pay a grand for a puppy and then risk its life on serious digging?

 

 

sorry Ohiosteve, I guess I did not make myself clear. I will try again. You mentioned that you paid $1000 for your bulldog, I am sure you would say he is worth that, but if there was a way to test him, and you watched him fail that test. That dog would no longer be worth that amount of money. most of us know what it feels like to love a dog one minute, and then the next minute know that it is worthless.

 

What I was trying to say is that the type of person that would want to get his money back out of the worthless dog, is like the prostitute. Who would sell a worthless dog, just because they paid big money for him. They would also do it even if they paid little money for it.

 

How many of you have bought a new car and drove it off the parking lot and instantly lost $5000 or more. If you can take that loss why not take a loss of of the price of a dog.

 

I was also trying to compare the price of dogs in the USA were they are few and far between to the price in the UK were they are in every town.

 

On a side note, Robert gave me Milo for free and even paid to ship him to me. He never asked for anything in return. I did send him a daughter of Milo eight years later, but it was something I wanted to do. Todd

[deadgame 58]

AHAAA!! The truth comes out! But which truth are we to believe?

 

Dean just because there are a bunch of different sides to the story that does not mean that one of them is the truth.........LOL

 

Here is the Truth John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son (Jesus) that whosoever would believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Todd

[jarhead 8]

One more thing TODD... If you reread your own post it kind of makes the point of people trying to recoup their investment. YOU had to drive far and pay money for a dog so therefore you feel justified in charging others. As I have stated before, get what you can from who you can, thats your right. But seriously how many people are gonna pay a grand for a puppy and then risk its life on serious digging?

 

What I was trying to say is that the type of person that would want to get his money back out of the worthless dog, is like the prostitute. Who would sell a worthless dog.

Todd

 

So what your saying mr gordon M,AKA mr p.r.dale is no more than a prostitute for selling whiskey the spewer for the sum of £700 to your mate OLA?SO that makes OLA nothing more than a kerb crawler......well praise the lord let the truth be told..

Edited December 8, 2010 by jarhead

[OHIO STEVE 11]

One more thing TODD... If you reread your own post it kind of makes the point of people trying to recoup their investment. YOU had to drive far and pay money for a dog so therefore you feel justified in charging others. As I have stated before, get what you can from who you can, thats your right. But seriously how many people are gonna pay a grand for a puppy and then risk its life on serious digging?

 

 

sorry Ohiosteve, I guess I did not make myself clear. I will try again. You mentioned that you paid $1000 for your bulldog, I am sure you would say he is worth that, but if there was a way to test him, and you watched him fail that test. That dog would no longer be worth that amount of money. most of us know what it feels like to love a dog one minute, and then the next minute know that it is worthless.

 

What I was trying to say is that the type of person that would want to get his money back out of the worthless dog, is like the prostitute. Who would sell a worthless dog, just because they paid big money for him. They would also do it even if they paid little money for it.

 

How many of you have bought a new car and drove it off the parking lot and instantly lost $5000 or more. If you can take that loss why not take a loss of of the price of a dog.

 

I was also trying to compare the price of dogs in the USA were they are few and far between to the price in the UK were they are in every town.

 

On a side note, Robert gave me Milo for free and even paid to ship him to me. He never asked for anything in return. I did send him a daughter of Milo eight years later, but it was something I wanted to do. Todd

I know what you were trying to say TODD, and I do not disagree with that to an extent. A liar and a con artist is a liar and a con artist whether it be for 1 dollar or 1000 dollars. I still believe that the high dollar dogs get bred just because they are high dollar dogs much of he time. As for my bulldog, yes I payed 1000 for him, and I would gladly pay it again. I did test him as hard as I could legally ( some stuff probably borderline) and he has proven his worth several times over. BUT had he failed miserably I am not 100% sure that I have the strength of character to NOT have bred him to recoup some of the 1000 I spent. He has been bred, most given away and a few sold but for far less than 1000.

If the goal in the terriers is to produce the best, wouldn't it be better to put the dogs in the hands of diggers rather than sell them to weight pullers and fly ballers and pet homes? I know guys who dig quite a bit and have ZERO issues with culling a cur... they cannot afford $1000.00 for a puppy that MIGHT work. According to some, they do not deserve to have a good dog.

[Griz 89]

It Seems to me to be a lot of Jelliousy My Father who has only ever bred one somtimes two litters a year has often refused great money for many Terriers including over 10.000 Euros for the great Bruiser dog and yet Gave him away as a already proven and awarded Hall of Fame Terrier and already proven work producing stud dog he like all the Terriers my father keeps was and still is an incredible finder and Worker that Killed every fox he saw and has stuck single handed to Badger in France for three days and nights untill dug to. instead My Father gave the dog to his good friends at Barnburner Kennels who themselves were astonded by his finding ability and Graft, as he did the proven and highest ever decorated for Work and Proven producer of constant workers by the independent PTCA Mileo who like his son Bruiser also became HOF and verminator extrodinar etc: etc: under his new ownership of Deadgame Kennels ,My father has sold and also given away several top ready working Terriers to proven trusted Friends in the State's like OLA ,Deadgame , Barnburner , and exchanged terrriers from within his own same line many with a few top and trusted Terriermen in Ireland like MushRay etc: All OF WHICH STILL HAVE and are proud to own Top finding hunting working Terriers from my fathers line today ,Theirfore surely giveing to friends or selling for quality for high price does not Make little or no difference except to the cheap-skate that runs around justifying his none taxed and tatty motor each to their own !! Take them IF you can or leave them ,As a mater of possible interest When Bruiser was bred to Barnburners own Merlin bitch the working sucess was incredible and has been repeted where-as when it was bred to Griz best ever worker most were Culled all were useless "Fact" also when Griz visited England he was heard openly running down all the then Nuttal dogs to the likes of Barry Wade and several other's etc: ,I shall finish by saying I have never heard my father run down any fellow Terrier or Sportsman .He himself would prefer to say nothing but possibly give a rye smile. PS All Griz Terriers contain Blood bred from the very man he runs down OLA --also Griz has never owned or had or seen work a Terrier direct from my Father.Nor will he!ever .in true Sport jonathan Booth France

Jonathon, I have read this post and am not at all amused.....First , I met your father in Iowa at Barburners at a get-to-gether....We talked at lenght about many things terrier, and, were in agreement on most all things. I found Robert to be very knowledgable, and cordial.....MY ONLY GRIPE is what OLA and TODD have done by commercializing the Booth dogs to make money and NOT sortng them out , but, selling to one and all to the highest bidder,NOTHING to do with your father or Booth dogs!.....Of course I have heard the dust up about your father from several sources , and, have just tried to remain neutral and stay out of the mess....You say I was overheard bashing Nuttall dogs to Barrie Wade,NONSENSE,completely untrue!...My line of dogs is based on Old Nuttall types, pre-Miner blood that is, from 20 years ago or more, so much for knocking them?...You say "my best ever worker", WHAT?..I sent Barnburners an adult male dog that had seen very little work, just a dog,surely not a best ever anything....They worked the dog and he died in a hole on a big coon on a long dig....He was bred only ONCE, to Merlin, a Cloot(old Nuttall)bred bitch, 2 pups, Robert saw them....They kept one, I got one....Aaron HASTILLY put his down at about a year old because he didnt start soon enuff ,to his satisfaction????? ...The pup I kept is working nicely, not taking a back step so far.....You are confusing my disgust for the tactics of OLA and Todd for repeatedly misrepresenting the terriers that they sell, not culling nonworkers,and , basically giving Booth dogs a black eye in America.....My dogs do indeed contain blood from OLA dogs from the past, old Nuttall dogs....BUT, I bred them on by breeding best to best, culling and sorting, as it should be......I personally , have nothing against your father or his dogs, a worker is a worker, no matter how bred.......Obviously you have been told a variety of untruths.Beware of what your told when 2nd,third,or forth hand.....

[Guest busterdog]

It's a shame all the bitching didn't stay this side of the pond, is it just terriers or is it the money that brings out the worst in the terrier world ? .

[Beck 15]

there would be bitching without the money mate it just adds to it

[BAD BOB 27]

Aaron made the post young booth

[Griz 89]

Aaron made the post young booth

Bob, come on now, dont let facts get in the way of a tall tale......

[OHIO STEVE 11]

It's a shame all the bitching didn't stay this side of the pond, is it just terriers or is it the money that brings out the worst in the terrier world ? .

terriers and roosters. Both seem to reduce some grown men to whiny little girls, and honest men to scheming money grubbers.

[deadgame 58]

It Seems to me to be a lot of Jelliousy My Father who has only ever bred one somtimes two litters a year has often refused great money for many Terriers including over 10.000 Euros for the great Bruiser dog and yet Gave him away as a already proven and awarded Hall of Fame Terrier and already proven work producing stud dog he like all the Terriers my father keeps was and still is an incredible finder and Worker that Killed every fox he saw and has stuck single handed to Badger in France for three days and nights untill dug to. instead My Father gave the dog to his good friends at Barnburner Kennels who themselves were astonded by his finding ability and Graft, as he did the proven and highest ever decorated for Work and Proven producer of constant workers by the independent PTCA Mileo who like his son Bruiser also became HOF and verminator extrodinar etc: etc: under his new ownership of Deadgame Kennels ,My father has sold and also given away several top ready working Terriers to proven trusted Friends in the State's like OLA ,Deadgame , Barnburner , and exchanged terrriers from within his own same line many with a few top and trusted Terriermen in Ireland like MushRay etc: All OF WHICH STILL HAVE and are proud to own Top finding hunting working Terriers from my fathers line today ,Theirfore surely giveing to friends or selling for quality for high price does not Make little or no difference except to the cheap-skate that runs around justifying his none taxed and tatty motor each to their own !! Take them IF you can or leave them ,As a mater of possible interest When Bruiser was bred to Barnburners own Merlin bitch the working sucess was incredible and has been repeted where-as when it was bred to Griz best ever worker most were Culled all were useless "Fact" also when Griz visited England he was heard openly running down all the then Nuttal dogs to the likes of Barry Wade and several other's etc: ,I shall finish by saying I have never heard my father run down any fellow Terrier or Sportsman .He himself would prefer to say nothing but possibly give a rye smile. PS All Griz Terriers contain Blood bred from the very man he runs down OLA --also Griz has never owned or had or seen work a Terrier direct from my Father.Nor will he!ever .in true Sport jonathan Booth France

Jonathon, I have read this post and am not at all amused.....First , I met your father in Iowa at Barburners at a get-to-gether....We talked at lenght about many things terrier, and, were in agreement on most all things. I found Robert to be very knowledgable, and cordial.....MY ONLY GRIPE is what OLA and TODD have done by commercializing the Booth dogs to make money and NOT sortng them out , but, selling to one and all to the highest bidder,NOTHING to do with your father or Booth dogs!.....Of course I have heard the dust up about your father from several sources , and, have just tried to remain neutral and stay out of the mess....You say I was overheard bashing Nuttall dogs to Barrie Wade,NONSENSE,completely untrue!...My line of dogs is based on Old Nuttall types, pre-Miner blood that is, from 20 years ago or more, so much for knocking them?...You say "my best ever worker", WHAT?..I sent Barnburners an adult male dog that had seen very little work, just a dog,surely not a best ever anything....They worked the dog and he died in a hole on a big coon on a long dig....He was bred only ONCE, to Merlin, a Cloot(old Nuttall)bred bitch, 2 pups, Robert saw them....They kept one, I got one....Aaron HASTILLY put his down at about a year old because he didnt start soon enuff ,to his satisfaction????? ...The pup I kept is working nicely, not taking a back step so far.....You are confusing my disgust for the tactics of OLA and Todd for repeatedly misrepresenting the terriers that they sell, not culling nonworkers,and , basically giving Booth dogs a black eye in America.....My dogs do indeed contain blood from OLA dogs from the past, old Nuttall dogs....BUT, I bred them on by breeding best to best, culling and sorting, as it should be......I personally , have nothing against your father or his dogs, a worker is a worker, no matter how bred.......Obviously you have been told a variety of untruths.Beware of what your told when 2nd,third,or forth hand.....

 

 

Practice what you preach Griz. Todd

[deadgame 58]

One more thing TODD... If you reread your own post it kind of makes the point of people trying to recoup their investment. YOU had to drive far and pay money for a dog so therefore you feel justified in charging others. As I have stated before, get what you can from who you can, thats your right. But seriously how many people are gonna pay a grand for a puppy and then risk its life on serious digging?

 

 

sorry Ohiosteve, I guess I did not make myself clear. I will try again. You mentioned that you paid $1000 for your bulldog, I am sure you would say he is worth that, but if there was a way to test him, and you watched him fail that test. That dog would no longer be worth that amount of money. most of us know what it feels like to love a dog one minute, and then the next minute know that it is worthless.

 

What I was trying to say is that the type of person that would want to get his money back out of the worthless dog, is like the prostitute. Who would sell a worthless dog, just because they paid big money for him. They would also do it even if they paid little money for it.

 

How many of you have bought a new car and drove it off the parking lot and instantly lost $5000 or more. If you can take that loss why not take a loss of of the price of a dog.

 

I was also trying to compare the price of dogs in the USA were they are few and far between to the price in the UK were they are in every town.

 

On a side note, Robert gave me Milo for free and even paid to ship him to me. He never asked for anything in return. I did send him a daughter of Milo eight years later, but it was something I wanted to do. Todd

I know what you were trying to say TODD, and I do not disagree with that to an extent. A liar and a con artist is a liar and a con artist whether it be for 1 dollar or 1000 dollars. I still believe that the high dollar dogs get bred just because they are high dollar dogs much of he time. As for my bulldog, yes I payed 1000 for him, and I would gladly pay it again. I did test him as hard as I could legally ( some stuff probably borderline) and he has proven his worth several times over. BUT had he failed miserably I am not 100% sure that I have the strength of character to NOT have bred him to recoup some of the 1000 I spent. He has been bred, most given away and a few sold but for far less than 1000.

If the goal in the terriers is to produce the best, wouldn't it be better to put the dogs in the hands of diggers rather than sell them to weight pullers and fly ballers and pet homes? I know guys who dig quite a bit and have ZERO issues with culling a cur... they cannot afford $1000.00 for a puppy that MIGHT work. According to some, they do not deserve to have a good dog.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I have only raised five pups this year, I still have four of them. But if you listen to people like Griz, you would think that I sell 1000 pups a year.

 

I can imagine being raised in the UK and hearing about the working terriers as a young lad, and then growing up and having someone give you a pup, but watching over you to see that you did right by the pup. Having gotten the pup from someone that you respected and wanted to immulate you would do the best you could to make them proud of the pup that they had bred and to not regret having given it to you. As the pup gets older and becomes a good worker that you are proud to own and the breeder is proud to know that he bred the dog and got you started off in the working terriers. You would develop character and respect, not only for the breeder of the dog, but the breeders behind that breeder as well as the four legged heros, whose names are recorded on the hand written pedigree that you have.

 

I was given Milo by a man that I respected a lot. I spent everyday trying to make him into the best dog that he could possibly be. I did not want him to ever regret that he had given him to me. I was excited when he was made a Field Champion and when he was given the Verminator Extradorinare award and I was excited when he was placed into the Patterdale Terrier Club of America's Hall of Fame. I was proud that he was still willing and able to work at almost 12 years old. I was happy to hear about his pups, grandpups, and great grandpups being such good workers. I was even proud of his pups being show champions, eventhough I stink at showing dogs and rarly even go to them. I was proud that his son was the no 8 weight pull dog in the country at one time and at the same time the first Patterdale to win a best in show at a UKC event, eventhough I had never been to a weight pull. I was proud to have sent pups out of him to several countries. If you have ever sent a dog to another country you would know that $1000 is a very cheap price for all you have to go through. I was also proud that eight years later I was able to send this man back a dog out of the dog he sent me. Milo was my dog, but he was bred by Robert Booth, and I never tried to hide that fact. He is recorded in the HOF as FC Robert Booth's Milo HOF not Fulford's and not Todd's Milo.

 

But the same things that made me proud of him, and made Robert not regret giving him to me, also made others want pups out of him. When you have 100 people wanting pups and you only have 3 or 4 pups the price automatically goes up. Just because you sell a dog for $1000 it does not mean that you are a bad person. Todd

Edited December 9, 2010 by deadgame