deer

[Guest bobbys back]

WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING LIKE DEER ARE RARELY CUGHT THEY CAN BE MUGGED ON THE LAMP BY ANY GOOD LURCHER OR ARE YOU LOY USING SPANIELS TO RUN THEM WITH????

 

:11: stiff why are you trying to make it sound like its hard to catch rabbits,any shit dog can do it, :11: :11:

ttell you what stiffmeister,i will show you my dog doing a rabbit,you show me yours do a nice fallow buck,

 

 

WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING LIKE DEER ARE RARELY CUGHT THEY CAN BE MUGGED ON THE LAMP BY ANY GOOD LURCHER OR ARE YOU LOY USING SPANIELS TO RUN THEM WITH????

 

:11: stiff why are you trying to make it sound like its hard to catch rabbits,any shit dog can do it, :11: :11:

tell you what stiffmeister,i will show you my dog doing a rabbit,you show me yours doing a nice fallow buck,

[MickC 1,825]

Seen a few dogs killed over the years when running Reds not just when they are in the Rut but all the year round.A few mates have lost dogs to Fallow and others have lost them to Roe and even Munties.I put a pic up on here earlier in the year of a Red Stag I had got with two litter mates.What I didnt know at the time was that my dog had been kicked good style in the side.I thought he was ok then a few weeks later a big lump came up on his side.I took him to the vets he had an operation (£350).All seemed fine then about a month after the operation the lump came up again.I took him to a different vet and he diagnosed it as Cellulitus.This apparently is a rupture between the skin and muscle lining and the dog thinks it is injured worse than it is and keeps flooding the wound with fluid and antibodies.This time it cost £425 and upto now it seems to have made a full recovery from it.If you run these beasts you have got to expect your fair share of injuries.I agree with BB they are hard enough to catch all year round but in the rutting season they are a lot harder again.

[Guest smoothrun]

You should think about respecting your quary and leave them be in rutting season.

[MickC 1,825]

You should think about respecting your quary and leave them be in rutting season.

I do respect all quarry.My dog was injured around March time, as you will know the Rut occurs around September-October

[macker 5]

not getting into this one as i agree both sides in ways

have bought good fox dogs and seen some good deer dogs for sale.

but one thing i have not seen for sale is a first class rabbit dog.

and only ever seen three dogs of a certain quality.

not easy to get a good dog for any quarry but a good dog to take rabbits on any land

flat on hills with out missing much is as rare as hens teeth.

i think every thing seems easy until we start hunting it.

will be honest enough to say i dont know much about hunting deer.

some of my friends take it serious and it seems to be the biggest they can get

they go for and how they have lost and seen how easy their dogs have been thrown

in the air when caught off guard.

its a good topic with different views

take it easy

macker

[gelert 1]

i think in the middle of a big field deer have very little chance especially roe as they don't have a hole to get down and on the lamp they can feel lost but can turn and move into cover easily as they live on the ground then they know the cover better than the dog so on fair ground a deer is hard but once a dog is on a deers arse its normally all over where as rabbits can jink and dissappear easy as well as being harder for a dog to spot again if its been thrown off

[kenny 0]

[bANNED TEXT] do you think? is harder to cach them on a day or night i think that their are easy to cach on a night

PERSONALLY I THINK YOU ARE GETTING A FALSE SENSE OF YOUR DOG IF HE CAN ONLY PULL THEM AT NIGHT...I THINK RABBITS ARE HARDER THAN DEER ON THE LAMP IMHO...OH AND AS FOR BREEDING..ANY DOG SHOULD TAKE THEM IF THEY WANT TOO

think you.ve had your glasses on inside out mate ?

[Boghossian 0]

Some questions for those who used to run red/fallow deer. From a total newbie.

 

Do you ever have to finish the animal yourself or did the dogs do it all?

 

Is it possible to catch large deer with only 2 dogs or do you ever use a 3-4?

[fordie 8]

bullxgreyhound or colliexgreyhound

[Guest Nightwalker]

Let me give you the benefit of my experience of dogs and deer, this is purely of historic interest now, but they were my main quarry for more than 30 years. I don’t expect everyone to like my views but here goes anyway.

 

The reality is that pre-ban, very few people specialised in running deer. Quite a lot of people took various deer now and again with whatever kind of dog they happened to own. Not many of us have run thousands of deer over periods of several decades. At the moment the fashion in the lurcher world is for bull crosses and saluki crosses, a decade or so ago it would have been collie crosses and before that deerhound crosses. There are several issues to think about here, all of which are of course now are purely hypothetical given that we are all law-abiding types.

 

Firstly, all deer are not equal. It takes a very different dog to take a red stag on the open hill in the day time in the North of Scotland, from a little muntjac doe on a seed field in Hertfordshire on the lamp. Some deer are much bigger than others: smallest muntjac, then CWD, then roe, then sika then fallow then reds although many southern fallow are as big as reds on the open hill in Scotland, southern reds are HUGE. Some deer use cover well, some are fast, some are agile, some are very, very powerful. A dog that takes roe well, may be opened up from end to end by a muntjac buck or kicked into next week by a fallow doe.

 

Some deer are more dangerous than others I have spent a fortune on vet bills from wounds inflicted by muntjac bucks and know of a couple of dogs which have bled to death after tackling them. In more than 30 years of running deer I have had two experienced dogs killed by fallow (on different occasions) and I have been hospitalised myself by a fallow buck. I know of people who have lost numbers of dogs to red deer. I have had one nasty wound inflicted on a dog by a roe. Most deer kick, but muntjac, fallow and reds are more dangerous to dogs than other types of deer.

 

Next is the question of sport, none of us here who use this web site are living in a post-apocalypse world where we will starve if we don’t catch a deer, so I conclude that we do it for sport, because we love to hunt and no apologies for that. I consider myself to be a sportsman not a butcher and some methods of taking deer are too much like butchery for my taste. This is because some methods load the die too heavily against the deer or cause totally unnecessary suffering, if I just liked to kill things I would get a job in an abattoir not go out with a dog. I also hate causing unnecessary suffering so if I am going to hunt an animal, I want it either to get away cleanly or be killed as quickly as possible once it is caught. For these reasons, I wouldn't run terrified and worn out little roe that have been chased away from cover by a subaru - too unsporting for my taste. I wont run small dogs, or arse-biting dogs that don’t have the technique or power to kill a deer cleanly, I gave up bull crosses because too many of them are arse-biters that never learn a proper killing technique. Deer run in daylight are much more of a sporting proposition than those run at night, although deer quickly become very, very lamp-shy. Some deer run by moonlight or on the lamp on big fields can be very hard to catch.

 

As a callow youth in my mid-teens, I started off running fallow with dogs that were underpowered and just too small for the job and had to use two or more dogs. In doing this I caused a lot of unnecessary suffering of which I am not proud. In more than 30 years of running deer I have never once wished for a smaller dog but I have many times found myself with a dog that was too small for the job at hand. The ideal for me is one dog, one deer and an open field in daylight, sometimes not all of these things are possible; nowadays, if deer were still a permissible quarry, the only real thing I would compromise on would be the daylight.

 

A deer dog (and by this I do not mean a dog that might occasionally pull over an unlucky roe), needs speed, courage, size, weight and the knack of killing deer cleanly. Some dogs have these things, others never will. What 30 years of regularly running deer has taught me is that for deer up to the size of roe or maybe sika, the ideal dog will have deerhound or saluki in it additional to a fair measure of greyhound and the bigger the better. Now I know that my next comment will cause a storm of ‘I have a 23†dog which kills deer well’ type comments but personally, I wouldn’t want to run anything smaller than 26†on any deer, even roe or muntjac.

 

For larger deer: fallow and reds; only pure-bred deerhounds and deerhound crosses really cut the mustard. other dogs lack the combination of innate technique, size, power and sheer physical strength to do the job well. I know there are big strong dogs of other breeding out there, what most of these lack is technique and robustness. My ideal deer dog will be at least 28†at the shoulder and ideally bigger than this, and will run head-up like a deerhound – ready to strike up at large quarry, not run head-down like most lurchers ready to strike downwards at small quarry. It will have inherited the innate deerhound characteristic of being able, time after time, to put in a flat-out front end strikes on running deer that will often kill the deer before it hits the ground. For me, anything that runs in and grabs a deer by the arse and hangs on to a screaming beast while the owner runs in is not a deer dog. For me a deer dog will kill its deer as quickly as a bullet from a rifle and the only damage will be to the neck.

[Guest Frank]

Nightwalker, thanks very much for that well discribed info of your experinces.

 

A very well said, could not agree more.

 

Frank.

[whin 463]

maybe not running them for thirty years but two decades of running them with all sorts myself for money sport and the table, walked up, driving stubbles ,the best dogs ive saw and had for roe ,have been saluki crosses of the tor of dartmoor line and a few colli crosses ive had my self no arse biters , ive gave good hare dogs away, at one time cause they were arse enders no good thye could kill a fox for fun, rabbits, but when they started chomping adios , i try not to run my dogs with stange dogs as bad habits can be had , the best roe dogs ive had were 60 to 70 pound in weight for open land and for hunting woods and semi open have been the line i still have but have failed to better it so far ive bred three litters and they seem to take the kneck marc chapmas bob my luke lana all kneck dogs but ive had a few that didnt that i bought in ,i hate seeing a dog rip into a haunch ,the minute i get to him the dog or dogs come off i finish it job done, ive been out with guys who have to beat dogs of etc etc does my nut in

im on the look out for a good allround stud dog to mate with lana has to be seen working etc can acomodate no problem, game etc are there any top class all rounders that ere kind of typy all the best , ive got a good saluki cross but need another hunting catching type , money can be paid , or a pup only serious genuine hunters etc, colli or terreir cross or maybe smallish deerhoundy type as long as they are all weather, go into cover type of dogs etc

[whin 463]

bo hossian i had a big dog sid he took fallow sika roe etc sigle handed when it was legal and was clever with it ,up and down the gears, he looke like a strong coursing hound but stonger and alot more wind roughly 27 and 65 pound a very good fox dog, a good night time dog, if you get the edrd there a picture of him in it away back in 2002 ,

[Guest bobbys back]

For larger deer: fallow and reds; only pure-bred deerhounds and deerhound crosses really cut the mustard. other dogs lack the combination of innate technique, size, power and sheer physical strength to do the job well. I know there are big strong dogs of other breeding out there, what most of these lack is technique and robustness. My ideal deer dog will be at least 28†at the shoulder and ideally bigger than this, and will run head-up like a deerhound – ready to strike up at large quarry, not run head-down like most lurchers ready to strike downwards at small quarry. It will have inherited the innate deerhound characteristic of being able, time after time, to put in a flat-out front end strikes on running deer that will often kill the deer before it hits the ground. For me, anything that runs in and grabs a deer by the arse and hangs on to a screaming beast while the owner runs in is not a deer dog. For me a deer dog will kill its deer as quickly as a bullet from a rifle and the only damage will be to the neck. :11: :11: :11:

 

 

i have been there and seen,and owned these big deerhounds that you talk of,and got to say,what a load of old bollox, :11: i would love to see the dog that will kill some of the southern bucks i have taken as quick as a bullet,not on this planet mate,i run a bullcross,because the deerhounds cant hack it,simply as that,every deerhound i have owned would take deer all year,but would spew in the rut,yours must be out of this world dogs to kill a fallow buck as quick as you say,talk is cheap,and bullshit is free,

[Guest Nightwalker]

i have been there and seen,and owned these big deerhounds that you talk of,and got to say,what a load of old bollox, :11: i would love to see the dog that will kill some of the southern bucks i have taken as quick as a bullet,not on this planet mate,i run a bullcross,because the deerhounds cant hack it,simply as that,every deerhound i have owned would take deer all year,but would spew in the rut,yours must be out of this world dogs to kill a fallow buck as quick as you say,talk is cheap,and bullshit is free,

 

As I said, not everyone will like my views. My comments about clean kills were mainly related to roe - which I have run more than anything else in the few years leading up to the ban. But, with that said, taken in the open, I have had instant kills on big fallow bucks - the dog needs them going flat out and to have a few seconds to line itself up to get the strike right achieve this.

 

Although I havent seen it myself, I know that the same can be achieved on reds as well, and if you read Mr Cassels book on the deerhound you will find a description of an instant kill achieved by his bitch Kirsty on a red hind.

 

How big is you bull cross and what does it weigh?

Edited November 20, 2006 by Nightwalker