Ballinlough Game Fair, Co Westmeath

[AlbertJ 569]

it took us over a half to drive out of shanes on the road

 

 

Twiggy,

 

Unlike Moira that was because of the crowds and not the mud!

 

Seriously we had three different exits working but had the largest crowd at any Irish Game Fair on Sunday.

 

Albert

[AlbertJ 569]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

[little fox hunter 0]

A good working terrier and lurcher show is not measured by the number of trade stands or by the quality of clay shooting etc. In my humble opinion its measued on the quality of the enterants, the judging and the set up of the racing. Game shows are only run to show the general public a glimse of working dogs, and not for the working doggy man/ woman.

 

There are many much better smaller shows all over the country. There is often a lot more thought put in to the racing in these smaller shows which tend to be particulary poor in these larger shows

 

The terrier judging in Shane's Castle this year was a joke, not just my opinion but that of many.

[true countryman 0]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

[Duckman 0]

Anyone going birr fair i went last year its good fun going again this year cant wait

[true countryman 0]

Anyone going birr fair i went last year its good fun going again this year cant wait

FOR THE FIRST YEAR IN ITS HISTORY, I FOR ONE WILL NOT!!

 

The arrogance of its key organiser is here for all to read on the forums so I will stick to the smaller shows and the larger game fairs - MOIRA & BALLINLOUGH!

[AlbertJ 569]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

 

TC,

 

I see you haven't the balls to identify yourself although it is obvious you are one of the organisers of the two smallest country fairs in Ireland this year.

 

I have not been "blowing my own trumpet" just putting forward the facts about the shows. Bill Beckett made the claim that "other fairs were flagging". He must have been looking in the mirror when he said this. I don't need to blow my own trumpet - I don't have to. The awards we have won speak for themselves, as does our research which will be published, plus the facts on the grounds such as the crowds we attract and the quality of our competitions and trade stands - especially the gun dealer stands. How many of these were there at Ballinlough?

 

They don't need to come on to the forum under their own name because they have you ( or you are one of them).

 

They appear to want to be us because I see Bill has gone on Twitter as Irish Game Fair - you don't see me or any of my colleagues going on Twitter as National Countrysports Fair or wanting to! Also the advertising poster for Ballinlough had our Game and Country Fair brand as large as the actual Fair title. I presume Bill & Derek recognise we are the brand leaders and they want to try to tap into the success of our brands, publicity and success!

 

Now I suggest you identify yourself and we can have an adult debate or if you want to hide behind an alias I suggest that you don't have the confidence to put your ocomments out under your own name.

 

If you come out under your own name I shall consider giving you a couple of quotes in the book we are currently preparing " Thirty Years Plus of Irish Game Fairs."

 

We shall have a chapter on Terrier & Lurchers in the books and amongst a number of revelations this will reveal publicly the reason why there is bad blood between the Terrier & Lurcher team at Shanes and the organisers of the NCF.

 

But I presume since you have such an intimate knowledge of the NCF and its organisers you know this or perhaps you were even involved!

 

Albert

[true countryman 0]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

 

TC,

 

I see you haven't the balls to identify yourself although it is obvious you are one of the organisers of the two smallest country fairs in Ireland this year.

 

I have not been "blowing my own trumpet" just putting forward the facts about the shows. Bill Beckett made the claim that "other fairs were flagging". He must have been looking in the mirror when he said this. I don't need to blow my own trumpet - I don't have to. The awards we have won speak for themselves, as does our research which will be published, plus the facts on the grounds such as the crowds we attract and the quality of our competitions and trade stands - especially the gun dealer stands. How many of these were there at Ballinlough?

 

They don't need to come on to the forum under their own name because they have you ( or you are one of them).

 

They appear to want to be us because I see Bill has gone on Twitter as Irish Game Fair - you don't see me or any of my colleagues going on Twitter as National Countrysports Fair or wanting to! Also the advertising poster for Ballinlough had our Game and Country Fair brand as large as the actual Fair title. I presume Bill & Derek recognise we are the brand leaders and they want to try to tap into the success of our brands, publicity and success!

 

Now I suggest you identify yourself and we can have an adult debate or if you want to hide behind an alias I suggest that you don't have the confidence to put your ocomments out under your own name.

 

If you come out under your own name I shall consider giving you a couple of quotes in the book we are currently preparing " Thirty Years Plus of Irish Game Fairs."

 

We shall have a chapter on Terrier & Lurchers in the books and amongst a number of revelations this will reveal publicly the reason why there is bad blood between the Terrier & Lurcher team at Shanes and the organisers of the NCF.

 

But I presume since you have such an intimate knowledge of the NCF and its organisers you know this or perhaps you were even involved!

 

Albert

Paranoia must be a terrible thing!

 

How many times - I am nothing to do with the MOIRA or BALLINLOUGH fairs or their organising team. I have no need to reveal my identity to you, in fact I am better not to reveal or you would feel the total embarrasment of your last number of weeks posts as I am simply a member of the public who is in to lurchers, terriers and game shooting. The reason I now will promote these shows and not yours is simple - YOUR ATTITUDE is bad for countrysports!

[Northsider 9]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

 

TC,

 

I see you haven't the balls to identify yourself although it is obvious you are one of the organisers of the two smallest country fairs in Ireland this year.

 

I have not been "blowing my own trumpet" just putting forward the facts about the shows. Bill Beckett made the claim that "other fairs were flagging". He must have been looking in the mirror when he said this. I don't need to blow my own trumpet - I don't have to. The awards we have won speak for themselves, as does our research which will be published, plus the facts on the grounds such as the crowds we attract and the quality of our competitions and trade stands - especially the gun dealer stands. How many of these were there at Ballinlough?

 

They don't need to come on to the forum under their own name because they have you ( or you are one of them).

 

They appear to want to be us because I see Bill has gone on Twitter as Irish Game Fair - you don't see me or any of my colleagues going on Twitter as National Countrysports Fair or wanting to! Also the advertising poster for Ballinlough had our Game and Country Fair brand as large as the actual Fair title. I presume Bill & Derek recognise we are the brand leaders and they want to try to tap into the success of our brands, publicity and success!

 

Now I suggest you identify yourself and we can have an adult debate or if you want to hide behind an alias I suggest that you don't have the confidence to put your ocomments out under your own name.

 

If you come out under your own name I shall consider giving you a couple of quotes in the book we are currently preparing " Thirty Years Plus of Irish Game Fairs."

 

We shall have a chapter on Terrier & Lurchers in the books and amongst a number of revelations this will reveal publicly the reason why there is bad blood between the Terrier & Lurcher team at Shanes and the organisers of the NCF.

 

But I presume since you have such an intimate knowledge of the NCF and its organisers you know this or perhaps you were even involved!

 

Albert

who is bill beckett or is it tom beckett anyone know

[Foxgun Tom 75]

Bill Beckett is one of the organisers of The Moira and Ballinlough Game Fair's I've known him for a good few years and he's one of the good guy's , a true countryman at heart, and much needed friend to the Lurcher & Terrier community This seem's to be a discussion about the organisers of the fairs Birr and Ballinlough rather than who run's the Lurcher & Terrier show's? Remember Ballinlough is only in its 2nd year and its still a learning curve for some (traders etc:) as for Bill Becket I'd vouch for him any day of the week

 

Tom

 

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

 

TC,

 

I see you haven't the balls to identify yourself although it is obvious you are one of the organisers of the two smallest country fairs in Ireland this year.

 

I have not been "blowing my own trumpet" just putting forward the facts about the shows. Bill Beckett made the claim that "other fairs were flagging". He must have been looking in the mirror when he said this. I don't need to blow my own trumpet - I don't have to. The awards we have won speak for themselves, as does our research which will be published, plus the facts on the grounds such as the crowds we attract and the quality of our competitions and trade stands - especially the gun dealer stands. How many of these were there at Ballinlough?

 

They don't need to come on to the forum under their own name because they have you ( or you are one of them).

 

They appear to want to be us because I see Bill has gone on Twitter as Irish Game Fair - you don't see me or any of my colleagues going on Twitter as National Countrysports Fair or wanting to! Also the advertising poster for Ballinlough had our Game and Country Fair brand as large as the actual Fair title. I presume Bill & Derek recognise we are the brand leaders and they want to try to tap into the success of our brands, publicity and success!

 

Now I suggest you identify yourself and we can have an adult debate or if you want to hide behind an alias I suggest that you don't have the confidence to put your ocomments out under your own name.

 

If you come out under your own name I shall consider giving you a couple of quotes in the book we are currently preparing " Thirty Years Plus of Irish Game Fairs."

 

We shall have a chapter on Terrier & Lurchers in the books and amongst a number of revelations this will reveal publicly the reason why there is bad blood between the Terrier & Lurcher team at Shanes and the organisers of the NCF.

 

But I presume since you have such an intimate knowledge of the NCF and its organisers you know this or perhaps you were even involved!

 

Albert

who is bill beckett or is it tom beckett anyone know

[AlbertJ 569]

See the lurcher and terrier categories up on the Ballinlough Game Fair website. Looks like a great line up - see categories for Whippets and Bull Cross as well. Sunday appears to be the big day! Looking forward to that one.

 

I see you TC aare still doing a promotion job for Bill & Derek - What prizes are there for this great line up of Terrier & Lurchers? There doesn't appear to be much information up about that!

If you are stuck for idea's for Birr I am sure you could always contact Bill or Derek. I don't see them on the forums here needing tips from you!

 

As I have said before, as someone who works lurchers & terriers, I am more concerned about retaining our sport for the future and I will encourage those who are putting effort in to doing the same. If this is your attitude then I don't really know what you bring to the table for our sport and I feel totally justified in supporting those who keep their head down and get on with it rather than repeatedly spouting the same old, same old!

 

Hi TC,

When Tommy told me about this I had to smile. It appears you think I appear as him as my "Alter Ego". As I said to you in my other response I don't need to hide behind an alias to make my points and I asked you if you had any points to make to debate them with me man to man. I make any points I wish through my magazine column and the fact that I and my colleagues have run the best Game and Country Fairs in Ireland for over 30 years with innovations every year should demonstrate that we know what we are about and don't need lessons from guys who appear to copy what we do.

 

Well what can I say about your suggestion to speak to Derek and Bill about ideas for our shows:

 

1. How to create a show with a mud heap of a car park . Think I'll pass on that one! I always plan for bad weather and hope for good including putting in permanent roads at our shows at Birr and Shanes.

2. How to hide Terriers & Lurchers away in a muddy side field. Think I'll pass on that too!

3. How to reduce the gundog section of the Fair with only North /South Teams. Pass on that too!

4. How to for two years have poor clay layouts with even poorer crowds. Pass on that too!

5. How to get beaten for the NITB Tourism Award when competing with Shanes. Pass!

6. How to advertise a Medievalfest. Oh they copied that from me!

7. How to deliver a Medieval Fest this year. Oh sorry they didn't.

8. How to organise a show on playing fields in a public park. No I think I prefer a proper estate.

9. How to have only two small gundealers instead of one a proper gunmakers row. No, I think I prefer 130 feet of gunmakers row.

10. How to run a gundog test with the backdrop of a housing estate. No, I think the public and teams would prefer to run at Shanes and view the tests from the grandeur of the battlements.

11. How to have a gundog test without a meanungful water retrieve. No, I think I will stick with Lough Neagh.

12. How to advertise over 200 stands which people had difficulty in counting. No think I'll stick with having nearly 200 real stands.

13. How to have a main arena programme limited to about 6/7 acts. No I think I'll go with what I have.

14. How to put virtually no money into the sporting events. No, think I'll continue to keep our prizes the best in the country and as good as any in the UK.

15. How to claim other events are flagging and then have to look in the mirror. No , think I will continue to try to break recods as we did at Shanes. Record no of exhibitors; record sponsorship; record publicity for country sports and record c rowds who know the best show in Ireland.

 

Need I go on. Virtually every event and exhibition Derek and Bill have was copied from our events with probably the exception of the planes which I don't want.

 

To be fair I have always said they run a decent fair at an unpromising venue, with a good collection of craft stands and I am flattered by the way they appear to copy much of what we do. But in terms of running Fairs they appear to have a lot to learn from our team's efforts.

 

I note that you claimed that the Ballinlough show had a great range of terrier and lurcher events . Why have you not answered Tommy's question about the prize fund. A list of classes does not make a great show. The entrants and prizes do!

 

Albert J Titterington

To confirm I am not one of the organisers of Moira but I certainly IMO can say the following to the points above as a PAST visitor to Shanes:

 

1 My car and I have left MANY a muddy Shanes Game Fair in the past.

2 My WORKING dogs work in the fields not on show in Main Arena's.

3 Don't recall Shanes EVER getting gundog teams from as far afield as the States.

4 A bad year in one discipline at a large game fair is not a criminal offence - MANY years of just ticking by as an

average show until the threat of Moira - well what can I say!

5 Really can't understand this one myself as the number of visitors to both shows don't appear to stack up against who

won the award.

6 Hardly think Shanes were the first ever show to come up with some Medieval demonstrations. Wouldn't flatter

yourselves on that score.

7 Maybe a closer look would help - Medieval was not on any advertising for Moira that I ever seen for this year -

but is for Ballinlough.

8 With such a well presented fair I doubt anyone noticed it was in a Public Park, even less cared! When I go to a Game

Fair I don't dwell on the setting but rather on what is on offer - but then who am I - only the paying public!

9 130ft filled with what? Correct me if I am wrong but having been at all 3 fairs to date this year I can't recall seeing

any more gun dealers at Shanes than at the others.

10 Well, I don't really follow gundogs but didn't hear that any of them say they missed the grandeur of the battlements!

11 Perhaps I will concede one point or it will look bad!

12 OK, you've got me - where were the rest of the stands hidden? I am not the only one who didn't count 200!

13 Well it's not the number of main arena acts that count - its the quality!

 

Ahhhh - I'm now bored - need I say any more!!

 

Well TC,

 

When I look at your contributions to the site I see that they are nearly all about promoting Moira and now Ballinlough. You seem to have great inside knowledge of the organisation of these Fairs and quite remarkably Bill or Derek don't appear to have made an appearance under their own names.

 

Some More Facts for you :

 

1. You have never had to be towed in or out of Shanes - we know how to organise events and car parks properly in all weathers - look at 2008 - not cars had to be towed out even in atrocious weather.

 

2. One swallow does not make a summer - the furthest that gundog teams come to Moira now is down the road. Like the clay shooting the gundog events at Moira appear to have gone backwards.

 

3. The clay shooting at Moira has been poor for the last two years - when is it ever going to be better.

 

4. The two shows were judged objectively by a panel of tourism and marketing professionals. Derek & Bill hadn't the balls to turn up for the award. Regarding crowds with the possible exception of 2008 Shanes Castle has always had much larger crowds than Moira. And this year Shanes had the best attendance at an Irish Game Fair on the Sunday. I was at Moira between 1 and 3 and saw very few people and very few cars going in or out. At that time we were queued back past the police station in Antrim! In fact in my opinion Ballywalter had a bigger crowd than Moira on their Sunday.

 

5.We were the first to have medieval events at a Fair in 1979. Early advertising for Moia implied there was a medievalfest.

 

6. Setting does count for virtually everyone other than you.

 

7. We had 6 individual stands with guns - how many had the Moira Fair or the Ballinlough Fair?

 

8. Ask any of the gundog people or visiting teams whether they would rather run at Moira or Shanes. Certainly its not Moira!

 

9. 206 stands claimed at Moira and over 150 stands claimed at Ballinlough - neither figure appeared to stack up even counting ice cream men etc This is my biggest gripe with Bill - he appears to rely on spin rather than substance.

 

10. I will concede Bill has one good arena act Adrian Hallgarth - but one act doesn't make for a good arena programme.

 

 

The show they run at Moira is Ok for the venue it is run in but it does not justify the PR Bill puts on it and the NITB award to us over them would certainly appear to justify this.

 

AND a big point I don't try to piggyback on their branding by calling myself national countrysports fair on twitter or having national countrysports fair on my posters. It would appear that having failed to attract crowds under their own brand name Bill & Derek are trying to "tap into" ours. Surely that says it all!

 

Now I have taken the time to answer your points I challenge you to reveal your true identity. If you don't I shall assume your are Bill, Derek or one of their close associates.

I suppose you have to blow your own trumpet, I don't see many others on here doing it for you! Your responses are full of hot air, the award you keep bumming on about is dated and obviously the organisers of Moira and Ballinlough feel no threat from you or your fairs or they would be on here themselves in some capacity. Now dry up!

 

TC,

 

I see you haven't the balls to identify yourself although it is obvious you are one of the organisers of the two smallest country fairs in Ireland this year.

 

I have not been "blowing my own trumpet" just putting forward the facts about the shows. Bill Beckett made the claim that "other fairs were flagging". He must have been looking in the mirror when he said this. I don't need to blow my own trumpet - I don't have to. The awards we have won speak for themselves, as does our research which will be published, plus the facts on the grounds such as the crowds we attract and the quality of our competitions and trade stands - especially the gun dealer stands. How many of these were there at Ballinlough?

 

They don't need to come on to the forum under their own name because they have you ( or you are one of them).

 

They appear to want to be us because I see Bill has gone on Twitter as Irish Game Fair - you don't see me or any of my colleagues going on Twitter as National Countrysports Fair or wanting to! Also the advertising poster for Ballinlough had our Game and Country Fair brand as large as the actual Fair title. I presume Bill & Derek recognise we are the brand leaders and they want to try to tap into the success of our brands, publicity and success!

 

Now I suggest you identify yourself and we can have an adult debate or if you want to hide behind an alias I suggest that you don't have the confidence to put your ocomments out under your own name.

 

If you come out under your own name I shall consider giving you a couple of quotes in the book we are currently preparing " Thirty Years Plus of Irish Game Fairs."

 

We shall have a chapter on Terrier & Lurchers in the books and amongst a number of revelations this will reveal publicly the reason why there is bad blood between the Terrier & Lurcher team at Shanes and the organisers of the NCF.

 

But I presume since you have such an intimate knowledge of the NCF and its organisers you know this or perhaps you were even involved!

 

Albert

Paranoia must be a terrible thing!

 

How many times - I am nothing to do with the MOIRA or BALLINLOUGH fairs or their organising team. I have no need to reveal my identity to you, in fact I am better not to reveal or you would feel the total embarrasment of your last number of weeks posts as I am simply a member of the public who is in to lurchers, terriers and game shooting. The reason I now will promote these shows and not yours is simple - YOUR ATTITUDE is bad for countrysports!

 

TC

 

For a "member of the public" you seem to know a lot about these events and if anyone looks at your posts they can see that your main if not sole reason for being on the forum is to promote these events.

 

Having lost the arguments you now fall back to personal attack without having the balls to issue such abuse/ opinions under your own name but rather hide behind an alias.

 

I won't lose any sleep over anonymous accusations such as you have made and the facts speak for themselves - record crowds at Shanes Castle and the best range of stands at any Irish Fair this year; poor crowds at Moira and difficult to justify the claim of having 206 stands AND poor crowds at Ballinlough and even poorer countrysports content and once again difficulty in seeing where there were "over 150 stands."

 

If anyone looks back over how you have lauded and promoted these fairs on this forum they will see that you appear to have misled readers by spouting PR spin rather than facts. How is that attitude or activity good for country sports?

 

At the end of the day country sports people will vote with their feet as to which shows are the best. So far this year they have voted in this way for Shanes over the other three Irish Fairs and I suspect in spite of your negative comments they will vote in this way for Birr as well.

 

It is well known in marketing theory and practice that copycat or "tribute" products are never as good as the original products or brands.

 

Albert J

[scent 509]

i cant believe this shit is still going on "MINES BETTER THEN YOURS"

[micheal rennicks 17]

agree mate move on boys.or get it on,ill be the judge

[scent 509]

agree mate move on boys.or get it on,ill be the judge

no way i heard your a shit judge id be a better judge

[Bryan 1,361]

i cant believe this shit is still going on "MINES BETTER THEN YOURS"

 

 

 

I think they should both get a Rosette