so you would rarther give a dog away or pts after all that hard work you must be crazy mate why not use a collar if it gets the result after everything else fails times are changing mate move with them not against
times might be changing but how to train a dog is still the same, shock collars create a nervousness in a dog regardless how you use it or how strong headed you dog is. its electrocuting the dog ffs.
the one i have used it on is far from nervouse have you even used one of theas collars or are you going on other peoples a counts i can tell you what you have said mate is a load