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Rag iv benn called alot worse, its a sad fact some people / organisations dont and probably will never understand the damage to a keepers livlyhood they do, so for now we have to just take it on the chin

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Couple of years ago when just driving around the release pens I counted 44 buzzards and 4 sparrowhawks, and they wonder why there is no ground nesting birds. Have seen a buzzard a few times taken a cock pheasant during the shooting season, bloody thing never got took the bill for a driven bird. :D

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Couple of years ago when just driving around the release pens I counted 44 buzzards and 4 sparrowhawks, and they wonder why there is no ground nesting birds. Have seen a buzzard a few times taken a cock pheasant during the shooting season, bloody thing never got took the bill for a driven bird. :D

Instead of looking to blame raptors for the lack of ground nesting birds try looking at the bigger picture! Changes in farming practices, foxes, badgers and the like. I find your remark about buzzards taking a cock pheasant a little hard to believe. As I have already said in an earlier reply, Despite the buzzards large size their feet are in fact quite small nor do they have the speed to catch a pheasant in flight.Being a lazy bird when it comes to hunting, they may take on a pheasant on the ground, but once airbourne the pheasant will simply out fly a buzzard. Harris Hawks on the other hand are very capable of catching pheasants and trained birds do so on a regular basis. I suspect that the bird you witnessed taking cock pheasants may well have been an escaped Harris? Or you could have been totally mistaken and the bird you saw was in fact a wild goshawk???

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It never took the pheasant in flight it took it on the ground. Am not just blaming buzzards for the decline in ground nesting birds, carrion crows and foxes like you say and they have a big part in the decline as well.

The buzzard did manage to take the cock pheasant and killed it, saw it with my own eyes. Was definitely a buzzard and not a goshawk.

Edited by East coast

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It never took the pheasant in flight it took it on the ground. Am not just blaming buzzards for the decline in ground nesting birds, carrion crows and foxes like you say and they have a big part in the decline as well.

The buzzard did manage to take the cock pheasant and killed it, saw it with my own eyes. Was definitely a buzzard and not a goshawk.

Didn't think it would have taken it in flight. Like I said they may take on a pheasant on the ground. but not in flight. If it was a cock bird I would say that it was probably a female buzzard. Apologies for any confusion on my part! Just for the record I shoot as well, and have done so for nearly 30yrs so I know where most of the people are coming from on this thread.

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It makes no difference whether a pheasant was flying when it was killed or standing still ! A dead bird is still dead !

Buzzards DO kill adult pheasants !

Poults , Buzzards hang around the pen in the morning waiting to drop on the first poult that moves .The concequence of that is it scares another 20/30 over the wire to be picked off by any other vermin while it tries to get back in .

 

Out of eight release pens a couple of years ago I was loosing birds regularly and moaned about it to some of the guns . One of them decided to come round with me for a morning feed to see what was happening .

5 of the pens had "ONLY" two buzzards in them , two more pens had three , and the last pen had four young buzzards in it ! Out of the eight pens ,two of the birds were that full of meat they couldnt even take off and get over the wire . We did help them over of course ,to raid another day .

 

The gun I took with me couldnt believe what he was seeing.

 

The density of buzzards means that any chance of a meal they will be there .We dont shoot many rabbits now because they are never above ground during the day ,like they used to be .

Any birds raking about on the stubble are soon scared off to hide for the next couple of hours untill the coast is clear again.

The disturbance the buzzard causes is just as bad as the killing they do ,If not worse .

 

If I could control ALL vermin within 40 metres of the release pen wire for a period of three weeks I would be a far happier man .But that sadly is not going to happen .

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When my mate was still keepering I used to get him scaffold mesh for there poult pens ,kept the poult in and ost predators out.

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It makes no difference whether a pheasant was flying when it was killed or standing still ! A dead bird is still dead !

Buzzards DO kill adult pheasants !

Poults , Buzzards hang around the pen in the morning waiting to drop on the first poult that moves .The concequence of that is it scares another 20/30 over the wire to be picked off by any other vermin while it tries to get back in .

 

 

The gun I took with me couldnt believe what he was seeing.

 

The density of buzzards means that any chance of a meal they will be there .We dont shoot many rabbits now because they are never above ground during the day ,like they used to be .

Any birds raking about on the stubble are soon scared off to hide for the next couple of hours untill the coast is clear again.

The disturbance the buzzard causes is just as bad as the killing they do ,If not worse .

 

If I could control ALL vermin within 40 metres of the release pen wire for a period of three weeks I would be a far happier man .But that sadly is not going to happen .

 

As I have already said Buzzards are usually only troublesome for a week or two when the the poults first go to wood, but usually loose interest once the poults grow a little and start to find their way out of the pen. As with any predator they will not pass up the chance of an easy meal.

Quote!

"Out of eight release pens a couple of years ago I was loosing birds regularly and moaned about it to some of the guns . One of them decided to come round with me for a morning feed to see what was happening .

5 of the pens had "ONLY" two buzzards in them , two more pens had three , and the last pen had four young buzzards in it ! Out of the eight pens ,two of the birds were that full of meat they couldnt even take off and get over the wire . We did help them over of course ,to raid another day ." Un-Quote!

 

You are obviously a gamekeeper so with reference to your last sentence in the above statement! I should be very careful what you put in writing on here, some people may construe what you say as an addmission to killing Raptors not something the Gamekeeping and Shooting fraternity need? Is it? I accept that Raptors are and can be a nuisance at this time of year, because there is an influx of young birds, But making comments like the one mentioned above only serves to give certain groups bullets to fire. I feel people like you bring Gamekeeping and Shooting into disrepute and it saddens me to be a part of it.

 

Please don't take me for a fool. My cottage is with in 50yrds of a release pen and I live smack bang in the middle of a wood. There are buzzards,spars and goshawks and in the 13yrs that I have lived here the pen has only been hit hard once! Foxes and badgers are more of a problem! And up until recently I used to help out with keepering duties.

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""You are obviously a gamekeeper so with reference to your last sentence in the above statement! I should be very careful what you put in writing on here, some people may construe what you say as an addmission to killing Raptors not something the Gamekeeping and Shooting fraternity need? Is it? I accept that Raptors are and can be a nuisance at this time of year, because there is an influx of young birds, But making comments like the one mentioned above only serves to give certain groups bullets to fire. I feel people like you bring Gamekeeping and Shooting into disrepute and it saddens me to be a part of it.""

 

Firstly ,I did say that "We did help them over of course ,to raid another day ."

 

secondly , I did make my position clear------- "But that sadly is not going to happen ."

 

What I would like to do is some kind of control at certain times of year ,Which is a far cry from the old days of "Kill em all"

 

If we are not even allowed to voice an opinion on what control measures may or may not be appropriate , how are we supposed to debate it ?

 

At the moment I have an annual signed letter from my boss and myself to tell everyone that under no circumstance are BOP or Badgers etc to be interfered with in any way . If people want to construe that as an admission to killing Raptors then they have their heads up their RRRSSSes. The Raptor brigade has us walking on eggshells in case we say the wrong thing or upset someone. Yet everyone else can say and make any claim they want whether its true or not !

I have Joe public crawling all over my place ,from grannies walking dogs ,tree huggers , twitchers , the raptor group ? , Pikeys , to mountain bikers and all the rest .for the last twenty years I have been well aware that one step out of line and somebody somewhere will see and report it .

 

So let them come and have a look !

 

I stated facts as they have happened here !

I voiced an opinion as to one method of "CONTROL" .

If that is bringing the profession into disrepute , then we have lost already and might as well give up .

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""You are obviously a gamekeeper so with reference to your last sentence in the above statement! I should be very careful what you put in writing on here, some people may construe what you say as an addmission to killing Raptors not something the Gamekeeping and Shooting fraternity need? Is it? I accept that Raptors are and can be a nuisance at this time of year, because there is an influx of young birds, But making comments like the one mentioned above only serves to give certain groups bullets to fire. I feel people like you bring Gamekeeping and Shooting into disrepute and it saddens me to be a part of it.""

 

Firstly ,I did say that "We did help them over of course ,to raid another day ."

 

secondly , I did make my position clear------- "But that sadly is not going to happen ."

 

What I would like to do is some kind of control at certain times of year ,Which is a far cry from the old days of "Kill em all"

 

If we are not even allowed to voice an opinion on what control measures may or may not be appropriate , how are we supposed to debate it ?

 

At the moment I have an annual signed letter from my boss and myself to tell everyone that under no circumstance are BOP or Badgers etc to be interfered with in any way . If people want to construe that as an admission to killing Raptors then they have their heads up their RRRSSSes. The Raptor brigade has us walking on eggshells in case we say the wrong thing or upset someone. Yet everyone else can say and make any claim they want whether its true or not !

I have Joe public crawling all over my place ,from grannies walking dogs ,tree huggers , twitchers , the raptor group ? , Pikeys , to mountain bikers and all the rest .for the last twenty years I have been well aware that one step out of line and somebody somewhere will see and report it .

 

So let them come and have a look !

 

I stated facts as they have happened here !

I voiced an opinion as to one method of "CONTROL" .

If that is bringing the profession into disrepute , then we have lost already and might as well give up .

 

Point Taken! I do understand and sympathise as to the position gamekeepers are in. But we have to be careful as you have so rightly pointed out. I to have been on the receiving end of the Raptor brigade. I shoot, fish and fly Birds of Prey. I watch a peregrine nest and have done for the last 4yrs. Noting when the birds laid, approximate hatch date for ringing purposes and then fledging etc. Only to be S*** on by the RSPB ringer. They tarr us all with the same brush. There are NO good people in either the Shooting or Falconry fraternity according to these people. Apologies! No offence meant.

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Blakloks asked for tips on how he can protect his poults from buzzards within the law it's a waste of time debating culling as the law will not be changed .So as i see it we will always need to rely on good gamies to come up with cunning plans to defend their birds.Why not get the likes of n.g.o. or b.a.s.c .to gather info from their members on how they deal with BOP legaly and try and work out wich are the most successfull or even better insted of thes organisations spending £££ on studys to prove the BOP do kill what we allready know they do .Get them to engage the boffins and the hawkpeople to look at how we can deter the bop even as 2434me says only for a few weeks a year. your's naively hily.

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"Blakloks asked for tips on how he can protect his poults from buzzards within the law it's a waste of time debating culling as the law will not be changed"

 

This may be of use in certain circumstances.

I have one particularly open release pen . I cant magically plant cover so I got a couple of lads and we cut a few trailer loads of willow branches .The long thin ones about 4/6 foot high . We placed them in large groups about 18 inches apart from the next one. It had the effect of stopping the Sparrow from flying through the pen in a straight line and gave birds an extra chance to see something coming . It also stopped the chance of being dropped on from above . Its not perfect but at least I feel as if I have done something . I have tried CD,s and bags but havent had much success with those .

 

EskdaleHawks ,

""Point Taken! I do understand and sympathise as to the position gamekeepers are in. But we have to be careful as you have so rightly pointed out. I to have been on the receiving end of the Raptor brigade. I shoot, fish and fly Birds of Prey. I watch a peregrine nest and have done for the last 4yrs. Noting when the birds laid, approximate hatch date for ringing purposes and then fledging etc. Only to be S*** on by the RSPB ringer. They tarr us all with the same brush. There are NO good people in either the Shooting or Falconry fraternity according to these people. Apologies! No offence meant.""

 

 

Thankyou for your reply .No offence taken . Much appreciated .

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I used to get bothered with buzzards and sparrow hawks on my shoot I keeper on. A gamekeeper friend recommended buying some baler twine (about £10 for 10,000ft), put a nail in the top of each post on your pen and randomly walk across the inside of your pen going from post to post and looping it around the nails, after abit of time you create a dense spider web effect, this helps stop raptors dropping in on your poults. As a further deterrent we hung loads of cd's around on the newly formed 'spider web'. Hope this helps, it reduced the amount of my poults been taken massively.

 

This is a photo outside one of my pens; its a favourite place for my poults to catch the sun in the mornings, a likely place for them to be killed by a B.O.P. All of my pens are now covered in this 'spiderweb' with CD's hanging plus bag tops - everytime you open a new bag of feed tie the pull off top to the webbing. This has stopped my poult deaths by birds of prey. Highly recommend it! ;)

post-27614-1249061071_thumb.jpg

Edited by woollyback

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I used to get bothered with buzzards and sparrow hawks on my shoot I keeper on. A gamekeeper friend recommended buying some baler twine (about £10 for 10,000ft), put a nail in the top of each post on your pen and randomly walk across the inside of your pen going from post to post and looping it around the nails, after abit of time you create a dense spider web effect, this helps stop raptors dropping in on your poults. As a further deterrent we hung loads of cd's around on the newly formed 'spider web'. Hope this helps, it reduced the amount of my poults been taken massively.

 

This is a photo outside one of my pens; its a favourite place for my poults to catch the sun in the mornings, a likely place for them to be killed by a B.O.P. All of my pens are now covered in this 'spiderweb' with CD's hanging plus bag tops - everytime you open a new bag of feed tie the pull off top to the webbing. This has stopped my poult deaths by birds of prey. Highly recommend it! ;)

Looks like a peregrine in the background to the left ?? i think you may as well put a net over there for all the work it is instead lol

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Blue binder twine!!!lolol

 

Brilliant stuff ! Half my shoot is held up with it .

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