cyclonebri1 8 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 It will really depend on what the minimum calibre permitted for fox is in your force area. Generally you need fox specified on your conditions to be authorised to shoot it.In my force area, the minimum for fox is .22 Hornet. As one of the smaller centrefires, it's punchy, and can take longer range small vermin with ease. Plus it's reloadable, so you can vary the load to suit your shooting. Seems quite a casual question so the answer has to be the cheapest.22 you can find. No other ammo comes near as cheap. Whilst it's certainly the cheapest, it's not much use if he isn't allowed to shoot fox as well as rabbit with it. It's the old argument again one that will never be answered as the various Police areas can't even agree. What I'm going by is the OP said he wanted a FAC rated rifle for rabbit and the odd fox, inferring he goes rabbit shooting and the odd fox crops up, not many folks get a specific fox calibre for that situation. I'd also bet there isn't a single shooter on here that if faced with a fox picking up a shot rabbit at say 40 yds or so, wouldn't shoot it with a .22? The real problem is that the law allows shotguns to be used for foxing, resulting in many walked up charlies being peppered with birdshot at 40 yds Nothing wrong with killing a fox with the SG, but more are wounded than killed due to innapropriate loads. Just my point of view I must be the exception to that rule then. You shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire (and it's not conditioned on your license) and you will lose your FAC if caught. That's why I applied for .22-250. It's only purpose is for foxing. I wouldn't shoot a fox with a shotgun over about 15 yards either. Even with SG, the pattern is rubbish and you'd never be guaranteed a clean kill. You wouldn't and I wouldn't but so many do. This is not a dig at you, but I've asked this question many times on here; In difference to your comment, (You shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire and if caught will lose your licence), has it ever actually happened???? The answer is NO. And if it's yes and substantiated, it took a bloody long time to get there The .22 is a far more suitable tool for fox than a shotgun, please feel free to discuss Quote Link to post
cyclonebri1 8 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 To be fair, it really does depend on what your Firearms Region deems "Vermin" Some say that Fox is classed as Vermin and so can be shot if you have Vermin listed on your FAC for a Rimfire. Others say that Fox is definitely not Vermin and has to be conditioned separately. But it doesn't stop there, you can get conflicting views from different FEO's within the same force. My FEO down here says that Fox has to be conditioned separately, whereas his colleague in the East of the force area says that Fox is Vermin. Where do you start If a case of Fox being shot with a Rimfire on a Vermin condition were taken up, it would either be thrown out as the conditions and opinions are so varied and vague, or it would go to court and be ruled in favour of the shooter IMO for the same reasons. As has been said many times, a test case is needed, but who wants to be the one to test it? As for the original question. Check with your Region whether fox is Vermin or a separate entity and go from there. A .22LR is a great round, and supremely quiet with a Mod. Its a good Mid range rabbit gun. The HMR is a headshooting gun really, and will take a bunny to 200+ yards with ease. If you have Foxes on you ground that need taking care of, I personally, would apply for a Rimfire and a Centrefire. SS Quote Link to post
humperdingle 0 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well that's what forums are for. Differences of opinions are valuable. We all learn from each other, and knock ideas about. But personally, having asked the specific question before of my FEO, the answer was definitive. Shoot a fox with an unauthorised weapon and FAC will be revoked. Now I'm not saying they're wrong, and i'm not saying you're wrong. There are (as previously stated) major differences between force areas on the interpretation of the law. I fell, however, that there is only ONE force I need to listen to, and that's my force area. They're the ones who issued my FAC, and I need to abide by the conditions laid down by them. Quite possibly if it were taken to court, the FAC would be returned and case overturned, but I'm not willing to take the risk of losing my guns for 6 months... a year... who knows how long, just because I took a shot at a fox with a rifle unsuitable as stated by my Force Firearms dept. Quote Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Indeed you have to listen to your force, but you above post gave the impression that it was across the board, which it isn't. But you are the same as myself in that I listen to my FEO and don't shoot Foxes with my rimfire now that it has been clarified. Quote Link to post
FUBAR 0 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 For what it's worth I'd say get yourself a 22lr for the bunnies and a 223 for the foxes, ask your feo about a 17hmr for when the bunnies get used to you stalking about. Quote Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I do shoot foxes with my rimfire, as it was clarified in my favour in my case. Herein lies the reason why I believe, not I, me, personal opinion, that no court would find in favour of the prosecuting license department on this one. Thus, while they might take your ticket off you, a trip to court gets it reinstated PDQ. But, as has been said, can you be arsed? Easier to get a condition to shoot them. or get a .22 Hornet, which everyone is happy with for fox, and if you reload costs the same as HMR. And works much better on everything too, without any more noise. BUT you do need to reload. I had one when I didn't, and it got sold. The new one, coming soon, should be much better, as I do now reload so can make ammo from whatever I can get hold of! Quote Link to post
Deker 3,453 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Vermin!!!??? Fox!!!!!????? Rimfire!!!!!!???? The Law!!!!!???? Think we have been here before...search THL for lots of debate on this subject!! Quote Link to post
Lewdan 17 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I do shoot foxes with my rimfire, as it was clarified in my favour in my case. Herein lies the reason why I believe, not I, me, personal opinion, that no court would find in favour of the prosecuting license department on this one. Thus, while they might take your ticket off you, a trip to court gets it reinstated PDQ. But, as has been said, can you be arsed? Easier to get a condition to shoot them. or get a .22 Hornet, which everyone is happy with for fox, and if you reload costs the same as HMR. And works much better on everything too, without any more noise. BUT you do need to reload. I had one when I didn't, and it got sold. The new one, coming soon, should be much better, as I do now reload so can make ammo from whatever I can get hold of! Well done mr L, good to hear you are coming back to the hornet club very very underated round What rifle are you getting, if you need any info on reloading this cal,give a shout Keith Quote Link to post
Deker 3,453 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I do shoot foxes with my rimfire, as it was clarified in my favour in my case. Herein lies the reason why I believe, not I, me, personal opinion, that no court would find in favour of the prosecuting license department on this one. Thus, while they might take your ticket off you, a trip to court gets it reinstated PDQ. But, as has been said, can you be arsed? Easier to get a condition to shoot them. or get a .22 Hornet, which everyone is happy with for fox, and if you reload costs the same as HMR. And works much better on everything too, without any more noise. BUT you do need to reload. I had one when I didn't, and it got sold. The new one, coming soon, should be much better, as I do now reload so can make ammo from whatever I can get hold of! Well done mr L, good to hear you are coming back to the hornet club very very underated round What rifle are you getting, if you need any info on reloading this cal,give a shout Keith Very possibly a dodgy CZ 527 I was playing with earlier today Quote Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hmmm, more likely the new one I can have for another £50 Quote Link to post
Deker 3,453 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hmmm, more likely the new one I can have for another £50 .......but this one comes with mounts and a top of the range Weaver Scope ...I was forgetting..you have the odd spare scope and set of mounts Quote Link to post
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