Training Collars

[wanderinstar 1]

Hi all,

I know this can be an emotive subject. But I have a real problem.

I have a 3 1/2 year old Springer dog. Up until about 6-7 months ago he used to come back on the whistle, no problem. But know he has taken to running off and hiding in the bushes or if he is swimming in the canal he will go to the far bank and just sit there looking at you. This can be MOST frustrating.

The wife has taken him back to training classes and he behaves impecably in a closed building. As soon as we let him off outside it is a totally different story.

Someone lent the wife one of these collars. One zap and he came straight back, after the second one he was walking to heel, off the lead, and if he got in front of her he would drop back to her side. Ideal, fantastic.

Question is does anyone have one that they have used and no longer require, as at £150 a throw for about 4-6 weeks work, as that should be enough time, seems rather expensive.

Any comments? (as I am sure there will be!!)

Ian.

[Andrea 2]

2

Edited May 5, 2008 by Andrea

[johnny4 0]

i got a pac training collar for my terrier who used to run of and not come back for ages even on calling him he would never return if it wasent for my training collar id not still have him it work 100% for me and now i dont use it at all on him best thing ive ever bought

 

johnny

[The Sporting Agent 0]

There are two oprions I think you should look at; firsty the zap collars do work, as you have experianced, but the cost is quite high; I would recomend looking into hireing one. There are companies that do this, Pac, Ithink is one - they advertise in the back of shooting times.

Second option might be to invest in a "spray" collar; at about £40 they aremuch cheaper, less "cruel" and can work just as well. They spray a citronella burst into the dogs face and have much the same result.

 

I would also recomend following the instructions carefully as there is a fine line between using either type collar to improve or correcttraining and just ending up with a dog that reacts out of fear when the collar is used long term. If the collars are used correctly to train the dog, then there will be a gradual reduction if theneed to use it, untill such time as the dog is trained to thecommands without it. If you get it wrong, as I'm afraid to say most do, you endup with a dog that knows when the collar is on and acts well out of fear but you end up with an untrained dog and have tokeep the collar long term. Do it right and you will only need the collar for a short time; hence my recomendation to look at the cheaper citronella coller or hiring an electric one.

 

All the best with the training.

[Guest ESS]

There are two oprions I think you should look at; firsty the zap collars do work, as you have experianced, but the cost is quite high; I would recomend looking into hireing one. There are companies that do this, Pac, Ithink is one - they advertise in the back of shooting times.

Second option might be to invest in a "spray" collar; at about £40 they aremuch cheaper, less "cruel" and can work just as well. They spray a citronella burst into the dogs face and have much the same result.

 

I would also recomend following the instructions carefully as there is a fine line between using either type collar to improve or correcttraining and just ending up with a dog that reacts out of fear when the collar is used long term. If the collars are used correctly to train the dog, then there will be a gradual reduction if theneed to use it, untill such time as the dog is trained to thecommands without it. If you get it wrong, as I'm afraid to say most do, you endup with a dog that knows when the collar is on and acts well out of fear but you end up with an untrained dog and have tokeep the collar long term. Do it right and you will only need the collar for a short time; hence my recomendation to look at the cheaper citronella coller or hiring an electric one.

 

All the best with the training.

Electric collars Ive never had the need to use.If the dog is pissing off ignoring the recall you zap it it wont know the reason its getting zapped.If you blow the recall after its been zapped it may follow to reason zap recall means zap.Collars have there place ,aggressive dogs ., worrying stock,and learning stop whistle or unsteadiness can be usefull.

 

I would try this first.I presume the dog understands the recall whistle ,its 3 years old.Get the dog in a enclosed area where there space for him to nose and be away from you ..let the dog mess about..after a few minutes call the dog to you with the whistle,if the dog ignores the whistle up on yer feet and hunt the thing down ,once youve caught it ,get hold the dog put it on a slip lead and drag it back to where you was standing before the dog ignored the recall blowing the whistle in its ears. Dont be soft be firm ,

 

Every time the dog ignores the recall get after it yank it let it know in no uncertain terms that this is not a game and will make the dog think everytime I ignore the whistle hes going to come after me and it wont be nice.

 

I am pleased that the collar worked for you and hope the dog continues to behalf itself

 

Good Luck

 

 

EDITED FOR GRAMMER FOR AND BEHALF OF RATMAN 2

 

Good Luck

Edited March 9, 2008 by ESS

[woz 260]

we use a shock collar for recall on my wolf x bitch......if she is wearing it she is perfect....the collar we use has two buttons on the tranmitter the first is an audible beep at the collar and the second is a zap of electric...we have got the dog used to the beep rather than the electric now.the idea is that you buy another much cheaper coller just with a beeper..we havnt bothered..as long as the dog has the collar on (without batterys) she is fine....

[Andrea 2]

This conversation reminds me of a chat i had with a trainer not so long ago. I had been having some trouble, like this, with my dog and not knowing much about training collars i asked he’s opinion. He said to me “ yes Andrea, i think a electric collar is a very good idea, Put it on your OWN neck, and every time the dog disobeys you, give YOURSELF a zap, because in the end, your dog is doing what you have allowed it to get away withâ€. Sound advice from a great man, and i never did need an E collar.

The fact is, we all make mistakes with our dogs, whether we are new to training, or a old hand at it. We mess up and it’s up to us to take responsibility for that. Sometimes we just need to change the way we train.

[Andrea 2]

we use a shock collar for recall on my wolf x bitch......if she is wearing it she is perfect....the collar we use has two buttons on the tranmitter the first is an audible beep at the collar and the second is a zap of electric...we have got the dog used to the beep rather than the electric now.the idea is that you buy another much cheaper coller just with a beeper..we havnt bothered..as long as the dog has the collar on (without batterys) she is fine....

 

Edit to add,using the spay collar or the beep on the E collar, are, In my humble opinion the better option.

[woz 260]

i ended up with the dog i use the collar with.not through choice...my dog is an akita/husky/timber wolf if you read the breed books on akitas there recall is famous for being poor to say the least...i refused to use the collar untill i had it on my own arm to see the effect.(very painful).shocking my dog is far less painfull than it feeling the sharp end of my 12 bore for chasing our horses or the neighbours sheep..iv have six dogs in total and have little need to even use a leed with any of them even as a group the all come to heel sit and wait when told etc etc....the wolf x is a totally differant kettle of fish.....it depends on the dog/owner surely its wrong to say there a bad option full stop???

[Guest ESS]

i ended up with the dog i use the collar with.not through choice...my dog is an akita/husky/timber wolf if you read the breed books on akitas there recall is famous for being poor to say the least...i refused to use the collar untill i had it on my own arm to see the effect.(very painful).shocking my dog is far less painfull than it feeling the sharp end of my 12 bore for chasing our horses or the neighbours sheep..iv have six dogs in total and have little need to even use a leed with any of them even as a group the all come to heel sit and wait when told etc etc....the wolf x is a totally differant kettle of fish.....it depends on the dog/owner surely its wrong to say there a bad option full stop???

 

 

Yer correct Woz certain breeds and certain criteria of behaviour a E collar may be the only way for correcting behaviour,but the original question related to a springer.You know your dogs better than I will and the collar worked.I would edge me point by stating your dog would be a little more of a handful than any of the gundog breeds.I for one would not rule out an E collar training in the right hands I could see that it would have positive results.

 

Regards ESS

[Andrea 2]

I agree ESS, Akita's are known for being very hard to train but i know nothing about your breed Woz, so i'm not aiming my post at you.

[sue 1]

i bought one for my lurcher only needed to use it a few times i paid£170 for mine its a lot of money to cough up but it will save i might need it again sometime

[robwak 0]

Hi all,

I know this can be an emotive subject. But I have a real problem.

I have a 3 1/2 year old Springer dog. Up until about 6-7 months ago he used to come back on the whistle, no problem. But know he has taken to running off and hiding in the bushes or if he is swimming in the canal he will go to the far bank and just sit there looking at you. This can be MOST frustrating.

The wife has taken him back to training classes and he behaves impecably in a closed building. As soon as we let him off outside it is a totally different story.

Someone lent the wife one of these collars. One zap and he came straight back, after the second one he was walking to heel, off the lead, and if he got in front of her he would drop back to her side. Ideal, fantastic.

Question is does anyone have one that they have used and no longer require, as at £150 a throw for about 4-6 weeks work, as that should be enough time, seems rather expensive.

Any comments? (as I am sure there will be!!)

Ian.

I have got a training collar and my advice would be that they can be useful for specific problems such as the one that you seem to have ( sprigers are renowned for buggering off!!!), but they are a worthwhile purchase because as with all dogs you may find in the future that your dog develops a problem that the collar is useful for. Make sure that you have a dummy collar that the dog wears all the time so that the dog does not come to associate wearing the collar with good behaviour but returns to bad habits with its removal.

HAVE FUN!!!!!

[Holland 0]

E collars have no place in the training and correction of gun dogs.

 

The relationship we have with our dog should be a strong one based on trust which takes time and patients to develop, there are no short cuts.

 

I have trained many dogs to the gun, both my own, and for other people and I’m not from the wishy-washy new age camp, but I do believe these collars to be unnecessary and cruel.

 

The only time an e collar might ever be used is when a behavioural problem is so severe that the only other option is the destruction of the dog.

 

This is rarely the case.

 

The ESS is a head strong, often naughty breed and need calm consistency in their training.

 

Just when we think all is well with our training it suddenly seems to fall apart.

This is quite common and usually occurs because we have moved on too quickly with the program, or have not let the bond between us and our dog develop.

 

Don’t try to teach your dog hand signals if he can not yet walk to heel!

 

It is infuriating when a dog repeatedly disobeys a simple command, but our frustration only breeds confusion and fear in his mind.

 

It is a lot easier to get a dog to come back to you if he actually wants to!

 

I suggest you go back to basics, heel work and short range retrievs in a controlled environment such as a secure garden. Only when you are working well together should you move on.

 

I once put one of these e collars around my upper arm to see how it felt, I suggest anyone planning to use one of these does the same before putting it around your best friends neck.

[Andrea 2]

E collars have no place in the training and correction of gun dogs.

 

The relationship we have with our dog should be a strong one based on trust which takes time and patients to develop, there are no short cuts.

 

I have trained many dogs to the gun, both my own, and for other people and I’m not from the wishy-washy new age camp, but I do believe these collars to be unnecessary and cruel.

 

The only time an e collar might ever be used is when a behavioural problem is so severe that the only other option is the destruction of the dog.

 

This is rarely the case.

 

The ESS is a head strong, often naughty breed and need calm consistency in their training.

 

Just when we think all is well with our training it suddenly seems to fall apart.

This is quite common and usually occurs because we have moved on too quickly with the program, or have not let the bond between us and our dog develop.

 

Don’t try to teach your dog hand signals if he can not yet walk to heel!

 

It is infuriating when a dog repeatedly disobeys a simple command, but our frustration only breeds confusion and fear in his mind.

 

It is a lot easier to get a dog to come back to you if he actually wants to!

 

I suggest you go back to basics, heel work and short range retrievs in a controlled environment such as a secure garden. Only when you are working well together should you move on.

 

I once put one of these e collars around my upper arm to see how it felt, I suggest anyone planning to use one of these does the same before putting it around your best friends neck.

 

 

Very true.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Andrea