Bipods ~ What's The Craic, Please?

[Squirrel_Basher 17,102]

A compremise is to buy one that extends to all positions .Prone,sitting and kneeling ,but then again im a fussy f****r .

[SNAP SHOT 194]

DITCH, I too wouls recommend the 9-13 inch swivel notched legs, here in eire if you shop about your looking at between 120 to 130 euro's, but worth every penny............ p.s. your local gun shop should be able to supply. just ask the price first.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

Sorry people double posted....

[dickyboy 1]

unfortunately the extra long bipod is a bit high for prone possible but not great..............that pod lock looks great....wish i had a swivel head now!!!!

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

:clapper: THANKS, Lads! Probably the most thorough and informative Thread I've ever read on here!

 

So, that's me sold then. 9-13 Swivel with the ratchety legs and lock. I had a vaguely similar set up on my Birding 'scope tripod, so I can appreciate the points.

 

Sitting up for the shot has it's appeals - enough of my stuff comes off through / over rough grass or banks. But being sat would really put me back at square one, with every breath and heart beat translating via the cross hairs. Prone? Get something - other than my stupid fist - under the back end and I could all but fire without otherwise touching the rifle, if ye see what I mean? Hand steadying the front end wouldn't move anything. F*ck me, I'll be dangerous!

 

Ok, don't anyone hold ye breath about this. We're talking reasonably serious money here and I haven't got any of that right this minute. But it's coming. Boat's on the horizon and, as soon as it comes in, I'm getting podded

 

Might even make my pig more reasonable to use?

 

Oh, incidentally; Anyone know of any serious issues with the barrel clamp fitting? For reasons of my own I rather prefer the idea of that one on The Pig.

[dickyboy 1]

i don't know what the barrel clamp is but if its what it sounds like then its a no no........nothing should touch the barrel ever clamp or not it'll throw shots randomly, fix it too thestock via a QD sling stud

 

sitting when done properly is very nearly as steady as prone.....sit side on, knees up with arms crossed over the top, for a right handed shooter the left hand on the butt.......its all about triangles(the strongest most rigid shape, look at bridges etc) make as many as possible, this position with a bipod is fantastic.....but it really depends what your grounds like i very rarely get the oppotunity to shoot prone especially trying to hold the lamp between the bipod legs, with sitting its quite easy to hold the lamp between the legs, all my shooting is lamping

[Mauser Man 0]

Keep it simple. Buy Harris (they are simply the best bi pod available); but be sure to buy a swivel type. Fixed types suit bench rest shooting but little else. A swivel pod will allow you to keep the rifle vertical no matter what the terain in the field. Some of the longer bipod versions are worth considering. Something up to 25 inches will allow you to pull the legs down unextended for prone shooting (they're normally around 13" in this form so if you carry a bit of puppy fat around the midrif like me it'll mean a fairly level arrangement) whilst extending them to full length will allow you to sit comfortably on your backside and have a bi-pod-supported, rock steady aim. I've found this a great advantage time out of number where vegetation is a little high for prone shots.

In terms of attachments always make sure the bipod is under the forestock. There are a number of attachments you can by for sling studs positioned in the end of the forestock, etc. but they're an absolute bollix and the forces of resting and firing a rifle on this arrangement can have a damaging effect. A friend destroyed the forestock of his Sauer doing just that. Have a competent gunsmith make alterations to either the bipod, the gun or both to enable the under the stock arrangement. You won't regret it.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Mauser Man

[SNAP SHOT 194]

Keep it simple. Buy Harris (they are simply the best bi pod available); but be sure to buy a swivel type. Fixed types suit bench rest shooting but little else. A swivel pod will allow you to keep the rifle vertical no matter what the terain in the field. Some of the longer bipod versions are worth considering. Something up to 25 inches will allow you to pull the legs down unextended for prone shooting (they're normally around 13" in this form so if you carry a bit of puppy fat around the midrif like me it'll mean a fairly level arrangement) whilst extending them to full length will allow you to sit comfortably on your backside and have a bi-pod-supported, rock steady aim. I've found this a great advantage time out of number where vegetation is a little high for prone shots.

In terms of attachments always make sure the bipod is under the forestock. There are a number of attachments you can by for sling studs positioned in the end of the forestock, etc. but they're an absolute bollix and the forces of resting and firing a rifle on this arrangement can have a damaging effect. A friend destroyed the forestock of his Sauer doing just that. Have a competent gunsmith make alterations to either the bipod, the gun or both to enable the under the stock arrangement. You won't regret it.

 

Never had a problem simply attaching the bi-pod to the QD sling stud on any rifle, as long as the stud is tight, So simply don't know why you would go to a gunny............?????????????????? As for forces your only resting the fore-end of the rifle on the bi-pod to ground,it's called gravity 9.81N only. no forces should be felt only recoil either from the gun when firing, simply not with you at all on this post mate....

[Squirrel_Basher 17,102]

The triple extender is for me ,the ultimate bipod ,giving rigidity at every level -

How it sits fully in .

Prone position .

Sitting .

Kneeling .

And how i sling it to cover all three occasions .Just release a level or two quietly .

Cost about £140 but worth it i think .

[Guest JohnGalway]

Be on the watch for a second hand harris, they're pretty indestructible. The 6-9" and 9-13" swivel models do get snapped up extremely quickly but they're worth the bargain. I got my 6-9" swivel off a target shooter down in waterford for 55 Euro delivered, can't beat it.

 

I wouldn't buy a notched leg Harris. It doesn't suit me, I have heard they are slightly noisier deploying due to the notch system than the smooth legged version. I can't prove that but I would only buy smooth legged models. The smooth legged models can be adjusted to different heights by the use of the nut on the legs as you probably know already.

 

The swivel is very important. It doesn't "flop" to either side either as some who have no expierence of using them may think. There's a knurled bolt that can be tightened right up - and it doesn't slip loose either.

 

Either way I'd suggest a swivel, smooth legged either 6-9" or 9-13". I've not fully read this thread but have heard mention of barrel clamp? Don't know what that is and I wouldn't do it to that type of rifle, but I'd imagine it's quite simple to attach a fore end swivel stud DIY style. If you don't have one I probably have one lying around here somewhere. Measure 10 times, do the job once.

 

One other thing to watch, when you'r using your fist under the rifle butt, be aware of squeezing that hand as your other hand is doing the trigger action, it can happen and lead to the aim going slightly off.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Well; I've just come in from a little jaunt with Dean O'. Obviously, I had the lamp attatched and so The Pig was Always carried in my hands or else simply sat between my legs as we drove on to the next spot. For the last few days though I've been wandering about with it often slung over my shoulder by its Butler Creek bouncy strap, attached by the two swivel eyes it (The Pig) came with.

 

Nothing to report from a blank night. We saw a fox in the first field we hit. But it was off on it's toes the moment the light hit it. Boy! Did That one know the craic?!

 

Anyway, it was as we pulled over, in town, for the customary debriefing session. I got out of the van to put The Pig in the back ..... and f*cking nearly tripped over the strap! SOB F*cking butt screw had simply fallen out of the wood!!!

 

Yeppers. Simple last act of gravity. As I brought the rifle horizontal, so everything gave up the ghost and the f*cking screw fell out. This after me spending hours walking metaled roads with the damn thing slung on my shoulder! I've been an act of god from The Pig suddenly smashing to the tar mac!

 

Never have been happy with those screws. As JG just so fatalisticly said; " Measure ten times. Do the job once. " Well, if only the f*cking butcher who slung the studs into The Pigs woodwork had read those words and taken notice! FFS!

 

So now I Could Araldite the studs in. But I'm not about to do that and 'devalue' the gun when I come to finally get rid of it. So I'll just carry it in my hands from now on. But that sort of brings me straight back to the barrel clamping fitting. It's on the Harris site, kindly linked to above. It looks like my only option - short of drilling yet more holes in The Pigs furniture. Or reverting to Araldite.

 

Just to add; Dean reckond he uses the screw legs too. They're an updated version of the clicky legs. Having discussed this, I'll go with the screws.

 

I still have issues in my head about the height question. Drops; Did ye leave photo's on ye Post, mate? Only sometimes they don't appear to me till next day (Yeah, I know; F*ck knows! But there it is!). I'll be back here and shall see if anything materialises.

 

 

One last thing, for the moment; Dicky? What's this all about, mate?

 

 

on my permission prone is frowned upon/banned.

 

 

Why???

[dickyboy 1]

ah ha...yes quite small fields with plenty of roads, 42 miles of footpaths, houses overlooking most fields, hills mean you rarely get a shot prone and if you did the trajectory is so flat that you tend to be pointing over a brow of hill at a house, road or something else i would probably hit. Deer stalkers have been asked to leave the estate as they said they could only shoot prone, i would not be reprimanded for shooting prone but the estate owner/land owner would start to think i may be irresponsible not taking the safest shot first, so i learnt to be rock steady on sitting shots so safety and possible shots are increased. I to have the same bipod as FD but being the proverbial butchers pencil i struggle to fill the back and am better sitting

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

" Butchers Pencil " ? Ye mean there's nothing of ye, Dickey? If that's the case, me too! When I lay on the ground, I look like a bicycle tyre track

 

And now, of course, you guys have got me busting my brain all over again! Drops' pic's have appeared today (Strange, isn't it? ) But it looks to me like one may be missed out? What ever.

 

I need to find me a good soul with just such a 'pod mounted and physically try it out. I simply can't sit here, looking at pictures. Listening to invisible peoples opinions. Playing with my Stanley tape and trying to imagine what the experience may be like for me. I mean, Dicky; You might be as skinny as me and yet five inches different in height. Drops could be any height and built like anything. How would I know what it's like to lay down when ye built like a bear? I've only ever been slim as my skeleton and experience everything from that perspective. The length from my hands to my elbows to my shoulders to me eyes is My length.

 

I need to Experience these taller pods. I wonder if Padraig has a pod on any of his kit Anyway, that's got to be my next mission. Thanks ever so much, all. This has been a real good Thread! I hope others can take from all this

[dickyboy 1]

yeah i'm a skinny one.......so to sum up the swivel with the lock on is best with the height being down to size and what sort of shooting style you can utilise.....but best to try height

 

 

Sorted??

[Mauser Man 0]

The topic of bipods is probably well exhausted by this stage. This post is not so much intended to extend the discussion as address and explain the issues raised by Snap Shot's failure to understand my angle on bipod mounting and his over simplification of the forces involved in firing a rifle from such a piece of apparatus (Feb 09th).

Snap Shot appears to have focused primarily on the force applied to rifle at rest and without firing. His statement that this is 9.81N is not exactly correct. The force of gravity is the force with which the earth or other massively large object attracts another object towards itself. By definition, this is the weight of the object. All objects upon earth experience a force of gravity. This force on earth is always equal to the weight of the object as found by the equation Fgrav = m * g where g is acceleration due to free fall or 9.8 m/s2 and m = mass (in kg). Oh well, you were nearly right, Snap Shot.

 

However, the intention is to actually fire the rifle, not merely take it for a romantic walk in the countryside. One might expect that firing would be a repeated activity over the life of the firearm. What has been overlooked almost completely in Snap Shot’s consideration is this fact, and also the undeniable and proven concept of conservation of momentum (blame Newton not me) and free recoil. The forces involved are not inconsiderable. Consider this scenario:

 

Firearm: Mauser 98 chambered in 7 × 57mm weighing 4.54 kilograms (10 pounds).

 

Projectile: spitzer type weighing 9.1 grams (140 grains) with a muzzle velocity of 823 meters per second (2700 feet per second).

 

Powder charge: single base nitrocellulose weighing 2.75 grams (42.5 grains) with a powder charge velocity of 1585 meters per second (5200 feet per second).

 

The momentum short form:

 

Etgu = 0.5 • [{( mp • vp) + (mc • vc)} / 1000]² / (mgu)

Etgu = 0.5 • [{(9.1 g • 823 m/s) + ( 3.63 g • 1585 m/s)}/1000]²/4.54 kg =

Etgu = 0.5 • [{(7489.3) + ( 5753.55)}/1000]² / 4.54 kg =

Etgu = 0.5 • [{13242.85}/1000]²/ 4.54 kg =

Etgu = 0.5•[13.243]²/4.54 kg =

Etgu = .5 • 175.377 /4.54 kg =

Etgu = 85.6885 /4.54 kg =

Etgu = 19.14 J of free recoil

 

This converts directly to 19.14 Newton Meters of energy (Newtons appearing to the unit of measurement so beloved of Snap Shot). This is instantaneous or 'shock' force. This force is being transferred to the bipod in the first instance and latterly to the shoulder of the firer. The bipod is a relatively rigid affair; the shoulder is not. In those cases where the bipod is attached in the end of the forestock (or some other odd place) there can occur flexing at, and of, the point of attachment. Given the minimal surrounding material in this area, occasionally, this can be detrimental to the mounting arrangement and to firearm in general, particularly where natural materials are used as in the very nice walnut stock of my friends Sauer. Damage can and does happen for the reason I’ve explained. My words of caution are based on clear science and personal experience. This post is not intended to antagonize or embarrass – merely to correct misconception.

 

In latin I think the phrase is “quod erat demonstrandum". For those with limited latin this means “that which was is demonstrated".

 

My thoughts on seeking assistance from a competent smith are based on the fact that over the years I’ve seen some very pretty rifles damaged by bodged DIY jobs. I read one of the guys recommending measuring 10 times and drilling once. If you’ve to do that, trust me, you are categorically incompetent and likely to make a problem rather than cure one.

 

Thanks for listening. Mauser Man, (Dr) Lecturer in Applied Physics…seriously.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Mauser Man