Public Confrontation, Ramblers etc

[Guest Lord B]

Has anyone had any experiance of being confronted by members of the public, "do-gooders", ramblers, twitchers etc while they have been lawfully going about their business be that keepering, shooting, pest control?

 

What was the outcome? Don't you find that the laws as they stand are in "their" favour?

 

Part of our estate is in a former grouse moor, now used pr partridge and is very popular with walkers, tourists an the like, its near a small touristy town and is an area that atracts a lot of visitors year round. The footpaths on the moor are not public rights of way even under CROW; however the paths and tracks on there are opened to the public at our (my) discression as the landowner; there are signs all over the place by the local council explainin this and our own estate signs but does it make it easier???

 

And as for the motocross guys, well!!

 

Anyone on a similar possition, or with experiance of the same I'd love to hear what you have to say.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,102]

If youve allowed the public on your land at your discretion then you have to be precise in what you will and wont allow in writing .Those disobeying your rules ,and they have to be within reason, are falling foul of commen law and could be prosecuted if reported /caught by the police .Tricky one mate but you are probably best to close the land to all then there is no question of trespass or 'with intent .No byways mean no legal access for bikes ,4x4s .Good will is seldom honored these days .

[Guest Lord B]

If youve allowed the public on your land at your discretion then you have to be precise in what you will and wont allow in writing .Those disobeying your rules ,and they have to be within reason, are falling foul of commen law and could be prosecuted if reported /caught by the police .Tricky one mate but you are probably best to close the land to all then there is no question of trespass or 'with intent .No byways mean no legal access for bikes ,4x4s .Good will is seldom honored these days .

Closing the land is not an isue, for generations it has been open. As for rules, there are explicit instructions about litter, dogs on leads, keeping to the paths, no motorised vehicles etc, you know the sort?

 

The problem isn't the acces per se, to be fair the vast majority are fine, there is some litter but nothing dissproportionate. Motorised vehicles are a problem, particularly bikes but that is something we are working on.

 

What I was really getting at is the small minority who see you with a knife or gun and how they react, the abuse, calling the police, the general abouse once they become aware of what I or my staff may be doing, being confronted and told I'M TRASPASSING or breaking a law; its unreal....

[Guest JohnGalway]

Not the same situation as yours but...

 

Myself and another lad were out sniping greycrows and magpies one day. The farmers daughter came along and gave me, as the other lad sensibly wandered off, a bollicking for shooting birds. Saying all the usual, shouldn't be done, what nasty types we were etc. Just so we're straight, her dad had given me permission, asked me in fact, to shoot on his land as I'm the only fella bothering the vermin in our area. So I kept my cool, kept stating the case such as it was, saying the damage they do to newborn lambs and ewes that go on their back and can't right themselves etc and so forth. She keeps on all guns blazing,there are no baby lambs this time of year etc,(like I have the friggin time at lambing being a farmer myself ). I'm getting nowhere. Anyway I just remark that she has a strange attitude to all this coming from a farming backround (born again townie that she is now) and that her dad not only gave me permission but asked me to be there, then I wandered off myself to resume what we'd been doing.

 

Basically put, if you're doing nothing against the law, and your on land you've permission to be then keep your cool and let them huff and puff all they like. If you get fed up of them just make your excuses and go back to what you were doing. The most important thing is not to give them any hint of a reason to let on that they had a "confrontation!" with an armed person. Keep the sense of humour turned on and all will be well.

 

If you're really worried then close your land off. I don't, and wouldn't, let anyone on my land for various reasons. I too live in a very busy tourist area so can empathise with what you say. You were most likely there before them and will be there long after their holiday. Don't let them get under your skin.

Edited December 12, 2007 by JohnGalway

[Guest Lord B]

Sounds like the typical type of story.

 

Unfortunatly things like this are all to common. A lack of understanding of the countryside, lack of empathy and confusion over isues like CROW I think make all this wors, not to mention the media spin that fuels the fire.

 

Three years age my late uncle, who was a sheep farmer in Snowdonia was confronted by armed police while out on the farm one day, with his shotgun in hand. You can imaging the picture, elderly farmer in his 70's, grew up on the land, stummbling to his knees in dissbelief, dirty Hi Lux nearby with a trailer on, wearing blue tatty boiler suit and wellies, flat cap and roll-up in mouth and a bunch of guys in black jump suits and bullet proof vests armed with 9mm SMG's pointed at him runing towards him - does he really sound like a member of the bl**dy Taliban or some big city drug dealer?? Doubtfull.

 

He was reported by two "members of the public" who were walking across his land, an area where there are no public rights of way.

 

Come on, do we really belive they though some armed terroris was threatening public safety?? They should have stuck to knitting yougurt......

[stork 1]

Were i worked as underkeeper we were yards away from santa pod race way and the quickest way in was up the half a mile private drive now when the really big three day events took plase usally in the middle of the rearing season i used to spend all day and all night up waiting and watching for the (PODDERS) as we calle`d themthey caused all sort`s of hassel now there is no public right of way near the rearing field. they used to come in little groups and open the shed door`s. shut all the window`s and turn the gas heaters up to 10 luckley it only happened to a part releaded shed But trying to catch them is a different when there is on a good weekend 15,000 people up there is very hard to . so in the end he now has to rear more birds because all they done the PODDERS is samsh up the security fense and do more damage . and the estate owner owns a team of barristers and even there is nothing he can do except move the rearing field to another hidden site.

And because there is a green lane running wright through santa pod past a foot path on our land they think its fun to come past the house on motor bikes winding the dogs up at 2-5 in the moring when you have been up all day catching there mates destroying the rearing field you don`t know what to do .But the motor bikes soon stopped after some specalised keepering skil`s were used to put an end to it . The foot path though cant be moved as it is a registered one. And as far as antis turing up on shoot day`s we never saw one and not once did i ever here any one complain about the shoot as it`s been there many years.

Gypy`s were a different problem all together because of were we where it was ideal for them although we had a 5 bar padlocked gate and half mile drive to come up to the houses they still stole a trailer and smashed the land rover window to move it to get to the trailer.

the police said we won`t find finger print`s and we never heard or saw a thing of who stole it and the police necer got back in touch about the small 18ft ifour williams trailer stolen.

[Deker 3,491]

I think JohnGalway has it pretty close.

 

I have lots of land but I don't own any of it. So first thing I always do if I think there is ANY likely hood of coming into contact with Joe Public is call the Police and get a URN. A lot of people do this but most seem to do it on a visit for visit basis, a URN can last up to 3 months so just make sure you tell the police you will be shooting throughout that time...easy.

 

I have footpaths, rights of way bridleways over loads of land and fairly commonly come into contact with the public. They tend to either be very quiet and hurry away or intent on telling you what a complete ****************** you are, and what right...., and blot on society,,, etc etc...you guys all know. Obviously as John says, do your best to explain that your actions are in the best interests of all concerned, you are fully authorised to be there, stay calm and keep the gun safe and unthreatening.

 

Commonly they are intent on ignoring everything you say and charge off muttering about the police. Round about this point give them the URN and tell them to quote that to the police.

 

I also find it is helpful to see and introduce myself to as many neighbours as possible and if at all possible the local council. In addition a pint, a chat and a pheasant/rabbit or two in the local is a great way to meet and get on good terms with the locals, can often bring yet more permission as well. Hey...these are just a few things I do but they do not necessarily all apply to all my land and your situations/circumstances may all be a bit different.

 

Deker

[Guest Lord B]

All sound advise which I wholy concur with.

 

The specific area in question covres just short of 1000 acres and our family has been part of the economy of the area for generation so we (I) am know to be the landowner etc. The majority of the "trouble we get (and its not a huge huge amount, is a few spoiling it for the many) is I'm sure from visitors.

We have strong relations with out local police officer. I'ts just interesting to hear other peoples experiances.

I'm very open to listening and explaining to anyone, but am slightly adverse to explaining that I am the landowner, Lord such and such etc, I do not want to portray this image of the landowner telling people to "Get off my land"; but frankly a little respect is due, not because of anything other than the fact that it is my property and by business, and me that opens the land to them.

On the few occasions where I have explained my possition with relation to the land there has been very little that people can argue back with, but people do get a bad impression of one purely for explaining that one actually owns the moor they are walking on.

It s all polotics and perception, I'm just fed up of being on the recieving end, not personaly, but us as field sports fans, rural folk.

Closing the land, any land, and banning the urban majority just escelates athe situation and ailienates us giving us a worse image. But why should we, the local population, the owners and workers of the land be.

[Guest Lord B]

It happened today.

 

9 guns from America having two days shooting with us. Today, their second day on our second shoot, halfway through the third drive on just the landarea I talk about in the other posts bellow, two police volvos and a discovery turn up, blues flashing Hechler & Koch's at the ready..........WHY???? Some bas***d yogurt knitting ramblers complained about some "men with guns walking up a public footpath" on the moor........

 

No mention obviously that we might be carrying side by sides as oposed to Uzzis, wearing tweeds and wellies instead of a Bin Laden mask......! What do they think we were up to!

 

The group who called them apparently stayed see the outcome; the look on their faces when a police officer told them they should have exercised some common sence before making the call........was one thing, but when I walked over, introduced myself as the land owner of the very piece of "public" footpath they were walking on and told them to put their fat retriever on a dog lead............and explained that the land was not free to public access other than by the landowners concent and agreement with the local authority.....PRICELESS! All done in a calm friendly professional manner.

 

What a waste of Police resources. I'm not one to complement the police too often, but very surprisingly professional officers handled the situation very well....

Edited December 20, 2007 by Lord B

[Aaron 3]

begging of this year there was an old boy and his wife out walking down the side of a cover crop with a little russel wich granted was on the lead. They were way of any right of way and had obviously come from the village. I politly confronted them and asked if they were aware that there was no right of way and could they please move on, the reply was not what was expected. the old boy turned round to me and said F*ck off, wasnt really expexting that, he then went on to explain that beacause he had walked where he wanted for the past 40 years he should not stop now! the conversation went on and he just got more p*ssed off so i put it like this, 'i shall come and walk my dog in your garden and will do for the next 40 years, how would you like that?' in the end he went on his way. just shows that people think they can do what they want and get away with it.

 

Regards

 

Aaron

[Guest smashygadge]

ive been reading all posts as regards u landowners that are disapionted with people walking on your

land or when you are going about your pest control and getting confronted by do gooders telling

u shouldnt be doing this or killng that and people walking where they shouldnt so u have the job of moving them on . well to be quite truthfull iam at the opposite end off the spectrum and i respect peoples land their property and their castles homes etc .yet i have moved to an area out in a lovely

village where their are plenty of posh houses posh landowners like yourselfs that take it upon themselves just to be down right rude and obnouxcous .as i have permission away from my house as

local landowners are 2 uptight 2 let their locals have a little permission to cleann up a few rabbits for them ofwhich most landowners around me have them running in their thousands..and are still right to go out of their way when i decide to walk my dogs on a leash along a public bridal way. part of the

ground thats their for everybody in the country to walk, ie ramblers dogooders me a lad that likes the countryside. get brandished a poacher for walking 2 lurchers and watched by them everytime i leave

the house with my 2 dogs and no i shouldnt have to drive to take my dogs for a walk i should be able to walk free on this country without the hoo ha henry telling me thats his land is next to that public foot path bridalway and not to be letting my dogs off when everybody else can.oh and i walk in camy trousers so im a steriotypical poacher its a joke. i have worked in peoples homes posh and the lower class that have more respect than a lot of u lovely landowners that dnt farm land anyway u own it

so u let people no u own it .and dnt want a genral person having a nice walk out walking accross it .

and make it plain and simple 2 let people like me no its your land .and you still moan about moaning about having to moan

[Guest smashygadge]

oh and as for public confrontation as regards jo public would be to show people a bit of decency

and climb down off your high horses and talk to people with a civil tounge yourselves

[njc110381 0]

ive been reading all posts as regards u landowners that are disapionted with people walking on your

land or when you are going about your pest control and getting confronted by do gooders telling

u shouldnt be doing this or killng that and people walking where they shouldnt so u have the job of moving them on . well to be quite truthfull iam at the opposite end off the spectrum and i respect peoples land their property and their castles homes etc .yet i have moved to an area out in a lovely

village where their are plenty of posh houses posh landowners like yourselfs that take it upon themselves just to be down right rude and obnouxcous .as i have permission away from my house as

local landowners are 2 uptight 2 let their locals have a little permission to cleann up a few rabbits for them ofwhich most landowners around me have them running in their thousands..and are still right to go out of their way when i decide to walk my dogs on a leash along a public bridal way. part of the

ground thats their for everybody in the country to walk, ie ramblers dogooders me a lad that likes the countryside. get brandished a poacher for walking 2 lurchers and watched by them everytime i leave

the house with my 2 dogs and no i shouldnt have to drive to take my dogs for a walk i should be able to walk free on this country without the hoo ha henry telling me thats his land is next to that public foot path bridalway and not to be letting my dogs off when everybody else can.oh and i walk in camy trousers so im a steriotypical poacher its a joke. i have worked in peoples homes posh and the lower class that have more respect than a lot of u lovely landowners that dnt farm land anyway u own it

so u let people no u own it .and dnt want a genral person having a nice walk out walking accross it .

and make it plain and simple 2 let people like me no its your land .and you still moan about moaning about having to moan

 

 

WTF is that about? Are you saying that land owners should let anyone who feels like it just wander over their land, even to the point of having to put up with abuse from them? That's crap! Would you let a stranger walk around your garden after he'd p***ed on your carrots and called you a w***er for questioning it? Probably not! With the respect you're showing, it's not surprising your local toffs think you're a prat! If you want respect, try showing some! I get on well with several rich land owners, probably because I treat them the same as I expect to be treated myself, and don't expect to be given free reign of their land just because they have more of it than I do. Muppet

[Guest smashygadge]

ive been reading all posts as regards u landowners that are disapionted with people walking on your

land or when you are going about your pest control and getting confronted by do gooders telling

u shouldnt be doing this or killng that and people walking where they shouldnt so u have the job of moving them on . well to be quite truthfull iam at the opposite end off the spectrum and i respect peoples land their property and their castles homes etc .yet i have moved to an area out in a lovely

village where their are plenty of posh houses posh landowners like yourselfs that take it upon themselves just to be down right rude and obnouxcous .as i have permission away from my house as

local landowners are 2 uptight 2 let their locals have a little permission to cleann up a few rabbits for them ofwhich most landowners around me have them running in their thousands..and are still right to go out of their way when i decide to walk my dogs on a leash along a public bridal way. part of the

ground thats their for everybody in the country to walk, ie ramblers dogooders me a lad that likes the countryside. get brandished a poacher for walking 2 lurchers and watched by them everytime i leave

the house with my 2 dogs and no i shouldnt have to drive to take my dogs for a walk i should be able to walk free on this country without the hoo ha henry telling me thats his land is next to that public foot path bridalway and not to be letting my dogs off when everybody else can.oh and i walk in camy trousers so im a steriotypical poacher its a joke. i have worked in peoples homes posh and the lower class that have more respect than a lot of u lovely landowners that dnt farm land anyway u own it

so u let people no u own it .and dnt want a genral person having a nice walk out walking accross it .

and make it plain and simple 2 let people like me no its your land .and you still moan about moaning about having to moan

 

 

WTF is that about? Are you saying that land owners should let anyone who feels like it just wander over their land, even to the point of having to put up with abuse from them? That's crap! Would you let a stranger walk around your garden after he'd p***ed on your carrots and called you a w***er for questioning it? Probably not! With the respect you're showing, it's not surprising your local toffs think you're a prat! If you want respect, try showing some! I get on well with several rich land owners, probably because I treat them the same as I expect to be treated myself, and don't expect to be given free reign of their land just because they have more of it than I do. Muppet

 

 

i show people respect thats given and stated they go out of their way to put their

point of their land when acctually its a public right of way and i show people the respect thats shown me and no i dnt wander peoples gardens i said i go out of my way to

do the right thing and show respect and on the other hand they dnt so up u u muppet

crawl back and lick some and no it dosnt upset me they own more than me planet u on

didnt ask for the run of their land as i have plenty and people are happy with my honesty and i dont talk to people like any piece of crap your lordy mateys do

[njc110381 0]

I've read lord bs and Aarons comments, and I can't see what either of them have done wrong? One has had his shoot f***ed up by a bunch of townie idiots who were wandering around his estate acting like they own the place, and the other has politely asked a walker not to wander around his cover crops (which could upset the birds) to be told to f*** off. I can't see how you can say these land owners are in the wrong? I find it very rare that rich people are rude, most of the true well off types are kind folk. It's already been said that as a rule they don't mind walkers, even though they're not supposed to be there!

 

Call me what you want, but to go around shouting insults at people based on the info on this topic is pretty short sighted. Both have been victims of trespassers ruining their day when they've done nothing to provoke it. You can't generalise and say all rich people are rude just because you've had a bad experience with a couple of them