FAC Help

[longy0710 2]

Guys

 

Just filling out my FAC application form but never having been that much into the FAC stuff i am struggling as to what to apply for....

 

I have a very large permission that i believe i will get cleared for most calibres. I also have a smaller permission that i hope to get cleared for FAC air and maybe 22lr if im lucky.

 

I currently shoot rabbits with a sub 12fpe rifle but need the extra range due to my permissions being very open! I also have the option of fox shooting on the larger permission. I was thinking along the lines of the following...

 

FAC Air - rabbit

.22lr - rabbit

.17hmr - rabbit and occasional fox

.223 - fox

 

What do you guys think?? Also anyone have any suggestions of rifles i should look at in the given calibres?

 

Sorry to go on

 

ATB

Longy

[Jonophilpott 0]

Youll be lucky to get all of them in one hit.

 

I put down .17hmr and .22lr and they only gave me the option for one.

 

I then went on to ask can i have FAC Air instead and they also said no

[cunninghamb 2]

Just ask for all that you want, the worst they can say is no!... As for the reason for the calibers - FAC air - vermin control (add short range to this if you feel the need to), 17hmr - vermin control i.e long range rabbits and crows (some const. can be fussy about having a 17 for fox), 22lr vermin control (state that for when shooting big bags of rabbits the exspense of using the 17 is to grate and that tell the feo the price of bullets for the 17 and the 22 to that he understands where you are coming from), .223 for reason, again write vermin control as this will mean you can use it on all vermin i.e crows, rabbits, foxes ect...

 

I got granted .17hmr, .22lr, .220swift, .270wsm & a 8 shot-auto on my first grant...

 

All The Best

[weldersunited 0]

As above, apply for all that you will need to get the job done- the worst they can do is say no. Whereabouts are you as it seems to be luck of the draw when it comes to FEO's in different areas. If you are refused any ask them for reasons why and under what conditions they would be granted- Having met my local FEO now, I would have no hesitation in contacting him to go through possible changes or additions now. Basc are also very helpful with their advice, may be worth giving them a call if you're a member?

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

ATB

[markha 99]

Just read some of your older posts, so can see your quiet new.

 

You need to think logically about the types and calibres you are asking for, i had a good chat with my FEO.

What you have to weigh up is calibre and range of calibre.

For me FAC air would be a waste of a slot as Air rifle can clear the rabbits up to say 50yds, then if I need a bit extra I can go for the 22lr. For fields where the quarry is at longer distances the 17hmr comes in to its own.

 

I know that for some, FAC air may be all they can get cleared for, however if your land is suitable go for a 22lr and then the longer shooting calibres or high power for fox etc.

 

You wont get Fox condition for 17hmr as the minimum guideline is usualy 223 , 22-250.

 

In all honesty mate, if your 'hoping' you will get your smaller permission cleared for fac air and maybe 22, it sounds like even you think your stretching the boundaries. If its that small just use your air rifle and stick to your larger permission for the other calibres.

 

 

Also I may be readin a bit into your post when you say your permissions are a bit open and you want FAC because of that.

 

I have one field that is 20 acres and open,(well tell a lie I have about 10 fields like that) bounded by hedges on all sides, the bunnies are in the hedges, fieldcraft means moving down the boundaries and picking them off with the air rifle is pretty easy, the same goes for lamping, we just drive the truck round the fields and pick them off.

 

Be sensible, forget about your small permission that you think may be a bit of a problem, base your application on the larger pieces of land and apply for 22lr 177hmr and a fox calibre. With centre fire you will need a fair amount of land, I know NW Police wouldnt entertain anything under 75 acres once boundaries are taken in to consideration.

Make sure you know your land well, know where all the safe shots can be taken from, know all you back stops, because most fox hunting is done at night you need to be even more switched on, 223 is 5.56 and they travel a long way if you miss and you havent got a back stop.

 

Thinking about it and having read al your older post since you have been on THL I would be sensible and apply for 22lr and 177hmr, then once you have a year or so of safe shooting under your belt put in for a variation for a centrefire.

 

Sorry if my advice isnt what you wanted to hear, but its better to be sensible and honest in your application.

[TWOTWOTHREE 152]

hi,if the land is flat and open,shooting off the back of a 4x4 or some other platform to gain a little height is an option,feo like that because you dont get a better bullet stopper than the ground,

cant comment on your police force but you will find the size of the land has little impact on the calibre given its where the round will stop is the issue,im not saying folk will get granted

firearms for their average 50ft square back garden,but ive known people get 22lr and 17hmr on less than ten acres of open paddocks,i got 17 hmr and 22lr granted on 40 acres many years ago and 223 on 200 acres my permissions exeed 400 acre at present so i dont have a problem with any land checks etc,i had my hmr granted for fox at that time but like markha said usually they prefer a centrefire for this job for eg 22 hornet .223

.22-250,i went for the .223 for fox control its a great round and gets the results,ring the feo concearned he will be the one who knows best atb rich

Edited October 12, 2011 by TWOTWOTHREE

[matt_hooks 188]

Amount of land is not important. I got my main permission, less than 50 acres, cleared for "full bore" which basically means anything up to .308 realistically. I got a .243 slot on the back of it.

 

It's not about the amount of land, it's about safe lines of fire. If your fields are completely flat, and you have a main road running alongside with only a wire fence to divide it, then I doubt you will get it cleared for anything really, no matter how big it is. The FEO said that mine was marginal, but because I'd put the thought in to safe lines of fire, and could show him where I was planning to put a couple of high seats, and the few safe lines for prone shots, he was happy that I knew what I was about. At the end of the day, the ground is only as safe as the bloke with the gun, so if you can show that you have thought about it, and come up with some solutions if the safe lines of fire are limited (basically anything that elevates the shooting position is a good thing)then your chances are pretty good.

 

Some forces will condition .17 for foxes, some won't. I'd push for the "any other legal quarry" condition on all rifles, it makes things so much easier!

[longy0710 2]

Just read some of your older posts, so can see your quiet new.

 

You need to think logically about the types and calibres you are asking for, i had a good chat with my FEO.

What you have to weigh up is calibre and range of calibre.

For me FAC air would be a waste of a slot as Air rifle can clear the rabbits up to say 50yds, then if I need a bit extra I can go for the 22lr. For fields where the quarry is at longer distances the 17hmr comes in to its own.

 

I know that for some, FAC air may be all they can get cleared for, however if your land is suitable go for a 22lr and then the longer shooting calibres or high power for fox etc.

 

You wont get Fox condition for 17hmr as the minimum guideline is usualy 223 , 22-250.

 

In all honesty mate, if your 'hoping' you will get your smaller permission cleared for fac air and maybe 22, it sounds like even you think your stretching the boundaries. If its that small just use your air rifle and stick to your larger permission for the other calibres.

 

 

Also I may be readin a bit into your post when you say your permissions are a bit open and you want FAC because of that.

 

I have one field that is 20 acres and open,(well tell a lie I have about 10 fields like that) bounded by hedges on all sides, the bunnies are in the hedges, fieldcraft means moving down the boundaries and picking them off with the air rifle is pretty easy, the same goes for lamping, we just drive the truck round the fields and pick them off.

 

Be sensible, forget about your small permission that you think may be a bit of a problem, base your application on the larger pieces of land and apply for 22lr 177hmr and a fox calibre. With centre fire you will need a fair amount of land, I know NW Police wouldnt entertain anything under 75 acres once boundaries are taken in to consideration.

Make sure you know your land well, know where all the safe shots can be taken from, know all you back stops, because most fox hunting is done at night you need to be even more switched on, 223 is 5.56 and they travel a long way if you miss and you havent got a back stop.

 

Thinking about it and having read al your older post since you have been on THL I would be sensible and apply for 22lr and 177hmr, then once you have a year or so of safe shooting under your belt put in for a variation for a centrefire.

 

Sorry if my advice isnt what you wanted to hear, but its better to be sensible and honest in your application.

 

Thanks ever so much for taking the time to write that,never expected such help!! I will really take all you have said into account. My shooting is/will be 90-95% rabbit so 22lr and 17hmr would be great.

 

Will ring FEO in the morning see if my land has already been cleared.

 

Martyn

[markha 99]

Your welcome Martyn, As you can see from Matt & Twotwothree post, and you will get many others who also have different experiences regarding size of land from their issuing police force. All forces want to see safe lines of fire and good backstops, or artificial ways of creating backstops, like Matt using high chairs, so effectively any misses/overpenetrations will just hit the ground.

 

Some forces however take more consideration in to the retained energy of centrefire calibres and make up there own rules as they go along!

There was a recent posting on THL from a guy who had just had his land check and told he could not shoot from the prone position anywhere on his land as it was flat! I thought this was crazy! Unless ofcourse the guy is 8' tall and he doesnt need a high chair

 

This is one of the, hopefully, good outcomes of the current 'select committee investigation', a re-jig of the current issueing criteria for FAC, so that all forces have to follow the exact same process, something which doesnt happen at the moment.

 

So back to the point, there is no single set of guidelines that the police follow, they just interpret the law how ever their chief of police seems fit, hence so many shooters different experience of applying for and getting a FAC.

 

Mant of those who apply for centrefire will have some sort of 'mentoring condition' pushed on them by the feo, this is illegal and has no basis in any of the guidelines or laws. My feo pushed this condition at me, and it went like this "go out with a mate and shot fox at night with him, using his rifle", " then give me his contact details so I can ring him up and see what he thinks of your safety when shooting at night etc"!!!!!

Basically he was telling me to break the law by borrowing a rifle off a mate, not under the 'estate condition', and then would be trusting the words of another FAC holder who was a compete stranger to him!!!!

I Rang BASC the same day and asked them what they thought, they were not ammused, and were allready in legal proceedings with 3 similar cases all going to appeal.

 

All shooting sports are under a very big spotlight at the moment, they may be in jeopardy in years to come (look at how quickly hand guns were banned from a knee jerk reaction) You have Scotland wanting airgun laws devolved to them so they can ban airguns, you have some factions pushing home affairs select committee to put shotguns on firearms license!

 

Thankfully organisations like BASC, CA, NGA and many more fight on our behalf to keep our shooting sports safe.

 

Do your homework, learn about what happens to different calibres when they hit the prey, or in some cases more importantly when they hit hard ground brush up on the differences between the calibres you want, this will then help you choose what will be the best one suited for a particular job.

All this knowledge should keep you keen and informed and expand your knowledge base, so when you get that interview with your feo he will be happy that you know your stuff and appear to be a mature, wise and safety conciouse sportsman.