nice night for a walk.........

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

Hi guy's.

 

 

I have just found another tall story.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt1y0jeQzrw&feature=related

 

 

Just goes to show, there are other good shot's out there too, so let's not get to wrapped up in our own success or knock other peoples.

 

 

Bill.

[matt_hooks 188]

Bill, it might be a good shot in terms of accuracy, but is it a responsible shot?

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

Bill, it might be a good shot in terms of accuracy, but is it a responsible shot?

 

 

Hi Matt.

 

 

Only the person pulling the trigger can make that decision, taking into account of his surroundings, weather conditions, and personal skill levels, confidence.

 

As I said, if the hunters equipment is up to the task, along with his/her marksmanship skill's, then why should he not take the shot.

 

The same can be said for a not so practiced marksman shooting at 30yds, is it safe, should he make the shot?

 

I think we are sometimes to quick to jump on people, and make our own assuptions before we know exactly what they are about.

 

As I said before, it is most deffinatly not a shot for the average hunter, but a practiced, knowlagable, and skilled marksman.

 

 

 

Bill.

[ryan666 64]

well nice set of replys as to weather it was safe,well i say yes,it was on the edge of the golf club and open fields for 1/4 mile(also my shoot)so as safe as possible and safer than some shots ive seen ppl take at 30 yards.

as to distance i maybe wrong,it could of been 97 yards as to hieght it was meant to be 40 foot not yards.

i have been shooting(mainly rifles)since i was a child as my father owned a club in norfolk and then when i entered the army so feel a 100 yd shot is not to bad,yes i own a 410 and as to the gesse shooting as i said to him before i am breaking no law and a single shot at 30 to 40 yards in the head kills them out right.i do own a fac.....think that covers it all but im sure there will be some thing else to reply to in time but to be honest with some of these replys i may not bother to reply at this rate.so carrie on guys

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

well nice set of replys as to weather it was safe,well i say yes,it was on the edge of the golf club and open fields for 1/4 mile(also my shoot)so as safe as possible and safer than some shots ive seen ppl take at 30 yards.

as to distance i maybe wrong,it could of been 97 yards as to hieght it was meant to be 40 foot not yards.

i have been shooting(mainly rifles)since i was a child as my father owned a club in norfolk and then when i entered the army so feel a 100 yd shot is not to bad,yes i own a 410 and as to the gesse shooting as i said to him before i am breaking no law and a single shot at 30 to 40 yards in the head kills them out right.i do own a fac.....think that covers it all but im sure there will be some thing else to reply to in time but to be honest with some of these replys i may not bother to reply at this rate.so carrie on guys

 

 

 

Hi Ryan.

 

Nice to see you here mate.

 

I guessed from the impact pictures of the shots that you were shooting FAC ( Hence my comment.....hitting with some vigour )

Your shot placment was clearly good too.

 

When you think some of us push the boundries when shooting sub 12ftlb @ 60yds.

Your shot using FAC 18 to 24ftlbs? puts things into perspective.

I would think that you would take quarry all day long at 60/70yds no problem.

 

Dont take too much to heart here, because all the guys are sound people, we just get it wrong sometimes......but then we are human after all.

 

I would hope the appolagies will follow soon

 

 

ATB.

 

 

Bill.

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

 

Not to sure on this guys post

 

It all seems a little too much for my way of thinking

 

If he did make the shot i would like to invite him to shoot with me on the Vermin Sniper DVD

 

On another note, I did see a rat today the size of a hippo, it looked at my r10 square on and head butted the RWS Super Field back at me

 

Joke "Thats a tall story too".

 

Si

 

 

Hiya Si.

 

Best get writing and sending that invite mate ......by the way......did you manage to catch that pellet the Hippo sized Rat headed back to you

 

 

 

Bill.

[matt_hooks 188]

An FAC air rifle, up into the air, will carry for a good distance with dangerous energies. Could you see where the shot was going to land? Did you know, for absolutely certain, that there was nothing in the overshoot that might be injured or damaged by a (likely) miss?

 

Unless you could SEE where the pellet was ending up I would contend it wasn't a safe shot.

 

Each of us has to decide for ourselves, on an individual basis, what is and what isn't a safe shot, and by debating it we can take on board other peoples opinions. I regularly take bunnies at 100 yards with the .22 LR, and pigeons, crows and jackdaws, but only on the ground where I have a safe backstop. I wouldn't even consider a shot into the trees.

 

I'm not questioning your marksmanship, but I would say that taking shots at living animals, right at the limit of what the tool can do, is not conducive to consistently humane kills.

[festa 206]

hi lads

bill i wasnt jumping straight on the guy but from what ive seen on the other forums he comes on shooting geese and asking questions about shooting cormerants and moorhens (with an air rifle) then his next breath he's asking how to turn his gun up cos it only shooting at 8.4ftp so its low on power but he's still taking shots on geese ..now he's on here taking pot shots at 100 yards i say pot shots because by his own claims he sounds he hit it .... if he was suprised to hit it he must of had doubts and if he had doubts should he of took the shot??

 

atb gary

[festa 206]

hi lads

bill i wasnt jumping straight on the guy but from what ive seen on the other forums he comes on shooting geese and asking questions about shooting cormerants and moorhens (with an air rifle) then his next breath he's asking how to turn his gun up cos it only shooting at 8.4ftp so its low on power but he's still taking shots on geese ..now he's on here taking pot shots at 100 yards i say pot shots because by his own claims he sounds suprised he hit it "well bugger me".... if he was suprised to hit it he must of had doubts and if he had doubts should he of took the shot??

 

atb gary

Edited October 18, 2010 by festa

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

An FAC air rifle, up into the air, will carry for a good distance with dangerous energies. Could you see where the shot was going to land? Did you know, for absolutely certain, that there was nothing in the overshoot that might be injured or damaged by a (likely) miss?

 

Unless you could SEE where the pellet was ending up I would contend it wasn't a safe shot.

 

Each of us has to decide for ourselves, on an individual basis, what is and what isn't a safe shot, and by debating it we can take on board other peoples opinions. I regularly take bunnies at 100 yards with the .22 LR, and pigeons, crows and jackdaws, but only on the ground where I have a safe backstop. I wouldn't even consider a shot into the trees.

 

I'm not questioning your marksmanship, but I would say that taking shots at living animals, right at the limit of what the tool can do, is not conducive to consistently humane kills.

 

 

 

Hiya Matt.

 

Your going back over old ground mate.

I think most hunters realise the effects of the shot they take, and the consequences.

 

So are YOU absolutly SURE that a shot YOU take at a bird/rabbit on the ground with a .22LR will not ricochete over your back stop if you miss??

If you are, your VERY confident or shoot in a quarry.

 

Bill.

[matt_hooks 188]

You can never entirely eliminate risk of course Bill, but you can bring it down to an acceptable level.

 

If I shoot a .22LR into a sloping backstop of soft earth, then I can say to a very high degree of likelihood that any miss or ricochet is not going to endanger anyone.

 

If I fire it at a high angle of elevation, over trees where I have only sky as a backdrop, and no way of knowing what's behind, then the risk increases hugely.

 

It all depends on where you want to set your limit as to acceptable risk.

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

hi lads

bill i wasnt jumping straight on the guy but from what ive seen on the other forums he comes on shooting geese and asking questions about shooting cormerants and moorhens (with an air rifle) then his next breath he's asking how to turn his gun up cos it only shooting at 8.4ftp so its low on power but he's still taking shots on geese ..now he's on here taking pot shots at 100 yards i say pot shots because by his own claims he sounds suprised he hit it "well bugger me".... if he was suprised to hit it he must of had doubts and if he had doubts should he of took the shot??

 

atb gary

 

 

 

Hiya Gary.

 

 

I dont know what has been said on other forums mate.

 

I just commented on his post made here.

 

It just seemed to me he was getting hammered from all sides, with most people supposing this shot could not be made, or should not.

 

Was anyone stood at the side of this guy when he took the shot, did anyone see the backdrop/overshoot.

 

I just felt the guy didnt have a chance, and some comments were made too early, and unfairly.

 

 

Bill.

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

You can never entirely eliminate risk of course Bill, but you can bring it down to an acceptable level.

 

If I shoot a .22LR into a sloping backstop of soft earth, then I can say to a very high degree of likelihood that any miss or ricochet is not going to endanger anyone.

 

If I fire it at a high angle of elevation, over trees where I have only sky as a backdrop, and no way of knowing what's behind, then the risk increases hugely.

 

It all depends on where you want to set your limit as to acceptable risk.

 

 

Hiya Matt.

 

Shooting over sloping/flat ground or into a bank, you can never say with any high degree that you will not get a ricochet.

I have shot literely 1000s of rounds into range butts ( Sand ), and had them fly away into the distance 7.62mm 9mm and even a HESH round from a 84mm Tank buster on an open range.

 

We shoot in fields, mostly flat I would think, we are always open to the unforseen, no matter how carfull or who we are.

 

Any hunter worth his salt will know his ground, and what lay's around and beyond it, and would hopefully asses the risks himself.

 

 

Bill.

[zini 1,939]

Blimey,

 

This post has really touched a nerve I see

 

Looking at this post on reflection in two parts

 

Accuracy and skill:

 

My own personal view is that a 97 or 100 yard shot which is 88.6 metres or 91.4 metres depending on it being 97 or 100 yards even with a FAC air rifle is a hell of a shot if the guy did it, putting aside the “is it a safe shot question†for a minute.

 

I’m sure we all at some stage in our own shooting lives have made what we later have thought to be a bit dodgy shot.

 

A FAC air rifle set at 54 ft / lbs like my old Gun Power Storm was, was only zeroed at 50 metres max.

 

An 18 to 36 ft / lb FAC air rifle wouldn’t be zeroed any further I wouldn’t think.

 

A rifle zeroed at 50 metres in either calibre would still need a considerable amount of hold over to hit the kill zone at 91 metres.

 

I managed to take kill zone shots on bunnies at 63 metres with mine regularly, (Gary was with me a few times when I did them).

 

I never tried any further as my shooting isn’t up to shots in excess of these ranges consistantly, but the rifle had it in it easily as the rabbits were shot straight through on retrieval.

 

Now take into consideration the 40 foot incline.

 

Normally the procedure of shooting up a steep incline requires the hunter to aim low to compensate for the reduction in a curved trajectory.

 

This said when shooting over a long distance up a hill the problem reverses and a new problem comes into play called SLANT RANGE.

 

This means that extra HOLD OVER would now need to be applied to compensate for the longer side of the shooting triangle.

 

What I mean by this is a target at 100 metres shot from a 50 metre zero on the horizontal plane (level ground and at the same elevation as the shooter) would require so much hold over.

 

A target now shot at 100 metres range from a 50 metre zero but up an incline would require more hold over as the long side of the triangle is longer than the ground side length.

 

If this man did all this and pulled off the shot I hold my hat out to him.

 

Now looking at the safe shot question:

 

I know that my sub 12 ft / lb rifle shoots over 418 metres from a 28 deg incline (over ¼ mile) as tested on ChairGun Pro.

 

An 18 to 36 ft / lb rifle would shoot a lot further and definitely well over ¼ mile (400 metres) as stated by the post writer.

 

Even if the open fields were ¼ mile and then the golf course on top, I would say that the pellet would either land over the course depending on direction, size and width, or on it somewhere where golfers or dog walkers could be.

 

Regarding being in the army and the 100 yard shot:

 

I know a bit about the army and comp shooting.

 

I have shot at some pretty high levels over the years myself.

 

Hitting a falling plate from 100 metres to 300 metres with a 5.56 mm bullet or 600 metres to 800 metres in 7.62 mm calibre with a sniper rifle travelling at speeds in excess of 900 mps is a lot different to shooting 18 to 36 ft / lbs at 100 yards.

 

It can’t be compared in terms of ballistics.

 

The best way like most things on this forum as i have found out myself is, if you want to really prove to people what you have said is true is to:

 

Laser the distance to the target on camera and then take your shot while the camera is rolling.

 

So Ryan I’m not knocking you buddy as I respect all marksmen highly myself, I’m just giving you the option to cast aside any doubt in peoples minds in the future.

 

Regarding the safe shooting, only you really new if the shot was going to be safe or not i surpose.

 

This is me taking a neutral look at the facts, and it’s only my personal thoughts.

 

Si

Edited October 18, 2010 by zini

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

Blimey,

 

This post has really touched a nerve I see

 

Looking at this post on reflection in two parts

 

Accuracy and skill:

 

My own personal view is that a 97 or 100 yard shot which is 88.6 metres or 91.4 metres depending on it being 97 or 100 yards even with a FAC air rifle is a hell of a shot if the guy did it, putting aside the “is it a safe shot question†for a minute.

 

I’m sure we all at some stage in our own shooting lives have made what we later have thought to be a bit dodgy shot.

 

A FAC air rifle set at 54 ft / lbs like my old Gun Power Storm was, was only zeroed at 50 metres max.

 

An 18 to 36 ft / lb FAC air rifle wouldn’t be zeroed any further I wouldn’t think.

 

A rifle zeroed at 50 metres in either calibre would still need a considerable amount of hold over to hit the kill zone at 91 metres.

 

I managed to take kill zone shots on bunnies at 63 metres with mine regularly, (Gary was with me a few times when I did them).

 

I never tried any further as my shooting isn’t up to shots in excess of these ranges consistantly, but the rifle had it in it easily as the rabbits were shot straight through on retrieval.

 

Now take into consideration the 40 foot incline.

 

Normally the procedure of shooting up a steep incline requires the hunter to aim low to compensate for the reduction in a curved trajectory.

 

This said when shooting over a long distance up a hill the problem reverses and a new problem comes into play called SLANT RANGE.

 

This means that extra HOLD OVER would now need to be applied to compensate for the longer side of the shooting triangle.

 

What I mean by this is a target at 100 metres shot from a 50 metre zero on the horizontal plane (level ground and at the same elevation as the shooter) would require so much hold over.

 

A target now shot at 100 metres range from a 50 metre zero but up an incline would require more hold over as the long side of the triangle is longer than the ground side length.

 

If this man did all this and pulled off the shot I hold my hat out to him.

 

Now looking at the safe shot question:

 

I know that my sub 12 ft / lb rifle shoots over 418 metres from a 28 deg incline (over ¼ mile) as tested on ChairGun Pro.

 

An 18 to 36 ft / lb rifle would shoot a lot further and definitely well over ¼ mile (400 metres) as stated by the post writer.

 

Even if the open fields were ¼ mile and then the golf course on top, I would say that the pellet would either land over the course depending on direction, size and width, or on it somewhere where golfers or dog walkers could be.

 

This is me taking a neutral look at the facts, and it’s only my personal thoughts.

 

Si

 

 

 

Hi Si.

 

Impressive stuff mate, and no more than we would expect from you.

 

Read his post again mate, he knew the ground behind the shot path, it is also his ground/permission.

 

You say you have taken shot's to 63yds with your sub 12ftlb, but would not do it on a regular basiss because your shooting isnt up to it.

Well has Ryan not done the very same, just a greater distance and with an FAC rifle?

 

Bill.