Specific FAC question... calibre and deer

[Leicester hunter 0]

No probs mate we all have to start somewhere. Have a read of these, there is some good info for you to be going on with

 

 

Fantastic guides! thanks very much!

 

one last thing if anyone is still listening... rifle ranges in leicestershire? google search yields not much...

 

Hi mate,

 

Am too in Leicester. There is a range at Kibworth, although only 30 yds and not sure of max calibre etc, but I know there is a decent outdoor range at Switherland. I havent been there, and dont know the name, but i also believe there is an indoor range in leicester itself.

 

Sorry, but not really needing the ranges, i dont know of any more.

[Leicester hunter 0]

if you think .308 is the minimum calibre or the correct calibre for geese and munty i surgest you do a bit more homework about it or you FEO will see straight through you, my surgestion would be to start with a rimmy

 

 

I may be mis informed, and very ready to admit it... I was lead to believe, by a few shooters, that a .308 is the 'sensible gun' for deer shooting. and that the legal minumum calibre is only slightly below this, (although I'm aware there is a difference between england and scotland).

 

I'm not a gun geek, I will fail technical questions about calibres... as I say, not interested in the sport side, just want to hunt for food.

 

From what I know about rim fires, they're only a slight upgrade from a good air rifle, and only good for rabbits and vermin. again, please correct if I'm wrong. We have sheep every so often, so I have legit reason for something to shoot foxes - hence the SGC in the first place. No, I didn't think .308 for geese, but just wanted to point out that I wasn't just after deer, and I'm not solely a rabbit man. I'm just after advice, but I sense my requirement is non-standard.

 

If memory serves, a 12ft/lbs air rifle with 16 grain pellets is about 650ft/sec, and a 17HMR is in excess of 2000ft/sec, so they are a bit different!

Edited February 18, 2010 by Leicester hunter

[farmershort 0]

No probs mate we all have to start somewhere. Have a read of these, there is some good info for you to be going on with

 

 

Fantastic guides! thanks very much!

 

one last thing if anyone is still listening... rifle ranges in leicestershire? google search yields not much...

 

Hi mate,

 

Am too in Leicester. There is a range at Kibworth, although only 30 yds and not sure of max calibre etc, but I know there is a decent outdoor range at Switherland. I havent been there, and dont know the name, but i also believe there is an indoor range in leicester itself.

 

Sorry, but not really needing the ranges, i dont know of any more.

 

Brill, I'll try and track down the swithland one then, I'm very close to there. It's just so that I can say I've got somewhere to zero a rifle. I'll speak to the range/club about membership as I suspect it'll make the FAC go smoother.

[Leicester hunter 0]

No probs mate we all have to start somewhere. Have a read of these, there is some good info for you to be going on with

 

 

Fantastic guides! thanks very much!

 

one last thing if anyone is still listening... rifle ranges in leicestershire? google search yields not much...

 

Hi mate,

 

Am too in Leicester. There is a range at Kibworth, although only 30 yds and not sure of max calibre etc, but I know there is a decent outdoor range at Switherland. I havent been there, and dont know the name, but i also believe there is an indoor range in leicester itself.

 

Sorry, but not really needing the ranges, i dont know of any more.

 

Brill, I'll try and track down the swithland one then, I'm very close to there. It's just so that I can say I've got somewhere to zero a rifle. I'll speak to the range/club about membership as I suspect it'll make the FAC go smoother.

 

someone i know at work shoots there, ill see if i can dig out a number for you.

[Guest dazzb]

told you that you would get the answers if you ask the [bANNED TEXT] questions, all the above have given good advice and you will need it mate to get an open ticket for a 22.250 or above on 150 to 200 acres, but dont take my word for it, believe me each firearms dept is different, i know i wouldnt stand a chance with greater manchester.

the bottom line is to do your homework and get some experience so to give very little reason to turn you down

atb daz

[RicW 67]

Minimum legal calibre for Muntjac and CWD in England and Wales is .220 CF, minimum Muzzle Energy 1000 ft.lbs. Hornet is not sufficiently powerful, .222, .223, 22-250 are all up to spec. Minimum calibre for Roe in England and Wales is .243. You do not need .308 for any quarry in the UK except Wild Boar.

 

BUT! You suggest that .22lr is not much more than air-gun power. Stop now. .22lr, subsonic, at 400 yards, is still travelling at 500fps and carrying 28 ft.lbs energy. That is more than enough to kill an adult human, and if you hit a kiddy . . . Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that distance = safety.

 

ATB

 

Ric

[farmershort 0]

Minimum legal calibre for Muntjac and CWD in England and Wales is .220 CF, minimum Muzzle Energy 1000 ft.lbs. Hornet is not sufficiently powerful, .222, .223, 22-250 are all up to spec. Minimum calibre for Roe in England and Wales is .243. You do not need .308 for any quarry in the UK except Wild Boar.

 

BUT! You suggest that .22lr is not much more than air-gun power. Stop now. .22lr, subsonic, at 400 yards, is still travelling at 500fps and carrying 28 ft.lbs energy. That is more than enough to kill an adult human, and if you hit a kiddy . . . Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that distance = safety.

 

ATB

 

Ric

 

fairy nuff, I just meant I can't kill anything more with a rim fire than I can kill with the shotgun/air rifle... it's all about the food mate.

 

after speaking to my friendly farmer, my FEO, a chap I know who hunts, and a chap from here who very kindly gave me a call, I've formulated a plan.

 

The 150 acre farm is in fact about 70- acres on one side of a road, and the rest on the other. FEO advises this is not big enough for a centrefire.

 

Soooo, it just so happens that the in-laws are welsh hill farmers, none of them shoot, but they do have a 300 acre farm on the side of a big welsh moutain with no footpaths, and hardly anyone around. I think I'm going to try and get permission to shoot foxes on that land, then wait out the 3 years for an open licence - shooting down there when I can... apparently if I put down that I want a .22CF on the licence, I can have all the way up to a .22250, and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

I can then spend the 3 years trying to find more land up here, and getting to know some deer stalking type people

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

 

...and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

No, not quite. To be able to shoot deer you must have deer specifically mentioned on your licence. In the case of a .22CF rifle it will state Muntjac and CWD in particular.

[Deker 3,491]

if you think .308 is the minimum calibre or the correct calibre for geese and munty i surgest you do a bit more homework about it or you FEO will see straight through you, my surgestion would be to start with a rimmy

 

 

I may be mis informed, and very ready to admit it... I was lead to believe, by a few shooters, that a .308 is the 'sensible gun' for deer shooting. and that the legal minumum calibre is only slightly below this, (although I'm aware there is a difference between england and scotland).

 

I'm not a gun geek, I will fail technical questions about calibres... as I say, not interested in the sport side, just want to hunt for food.

 

From what I know about rim fires, they're only a slight upgrade from a good air rifle, and only good for rabbits and vermin. again, please correct if I'm wrong. We have sheep every so often, so I have legit reason for something to shoot foxes - hence the SGC in the first place. No, I didn't think .308 for geese, but just wanted to point out that I wasn't just after deer, and I'm not solely a rabbit man. I'm just after advice, but I sense my requirement is non-standard.

 

If memory serves, a 12ft/lbs air rifle with 16 grain pellets is about 650ft/sec, and a 17HMR is in excess of 2000ft/sec, so they are a bit different!

 

Hi Leicester hunter, you would be very lucky to get a 16g pellet, 12ft lb air rifle to top 600ft sec, and the HMR with 17g ballistic tips is listed at 2550ft sec by just about every manufacturer, but I have never got one that fast at the muzzle, even though I have a 22" barrel, just over 2500 was the best I seem to remember!.

 

But did I miss something (probably) what is that all about anyway??

Edited February 18, 2010 by Deker

[Deker 3,491]

I'm finding this thread a little confusing myself, just go with a .243 for everything, ALL deer legal, Fox sanctioned by the Home Office and the Geese aren't going to argue much either!

 

 

:thumbs

[elvolcan 0]

From what I know about rim fires, they're only a slight upgrade from a good air rifle, and only good for rabbits and vermin. again, please correct if I'm wrong. We have sheep every so often, so I have legit reason for something to shoot foxes - hence the SGC in the first place. No, I didn't think .308 for geese, but just wanted to point out that I wasn't just after deer, and I'm not solely a rabbit man. I'm just after advice, but I sense my requirement is non-standard.

 

good air rifle = 12ft/lbs

 

.17HMR rimfire = 245ft/lbs

 

So the .17HMR is 20 times more powerful, or 2000% more powerful)

 

Is that only a slight upgrade?

 

 

fairy nuff, I just meant I can't kill anything more with a rim fire than I can kill with the shotgun/air rifle... it's all about the food mate.

 

I'd like to see you take a rabbit at 150yards with a shotgun/air rifle. their max range is 30yards.

 

 

 

With the knowledge of firearms you've displayed so far, getting a Firearms License will be a near miracle.

Edited February 18, 2010 by elvolcan

[waidmann 105]

having spoken(only last week) to a reliable source about the "most efficiant barrel length for .177hmr"

i can only repeat his statement" the powder is burnt just before 16 inches in most cases" (meaning i guess weather conditions etc)

and so i would presume that anything above that would not increase the pressure and therefore would through friction reduce the muzzle velocity??

i'm no expert in this type of thing( nor most other things for that matter ) just thought i'd throw it in as i thought it was relevant to the last post.

if its bollocks then ignore it

cheers

 

waidmann

[farmershort 0]

I'm finding this thread a little confusing myself, just go with a .243 for everything, ALL deer legal, Fox sanctioned by the Home Office and the Geese aren't going to argue much either!

 

 

:thumbs

 

It's just a case of finding the land on which I'd be allowed a .243 which is the problem. for my FEO, I believe I have to show reasonably that there are roe deer in the area, AND have a big enough/safe enough plot to justfiy it. This is difficult where I am, and with the small circle of farmers I know here. asking for a .243 and putting 'foxes' down wont seem to cover it in this case. I imagine it's the welsh FEO who would look at a farm in wales though... so would have to get their opinion on it... anyone know the FEO for the west brecon/brecknock area?

 

Just so I understand this correctly, if I put 'foxes' as my reason on a FAC and apply for a .22CF does that mean my licence will still say on it 'muntjac and cwd', or do I have to ask for muntjac and cwd specifically?

 

Thanks

[Deker 3,491]

I'm finding this thread a little confusing myself, just go with a .243 for everything, ALL deer legal, Fox sanctioned by the Home Office and the Geese aren't going to argue much either!

 

 

:thumbs

 

It's just a case of finding the land on which I'd be allowed a .243 which is the problem. for my FEO, I believe I have to show reasonably that there are roe deer in the area, AND have a big enough/safe enough plot to justfiy it. This is difficult where I am, and with the small circle of farmers I know here. asking for a .243 and putting 'foxes' down wont seem to cover it in this case. I imagine it's the welsh FEO who would look at a farm in wales though... so would have to get their opinion on it... anyone know the FEO for the west brecon/brecknock area?

 

Just so I understand this correctly, if I put 'foxes' as my reason on a FAC and apply for a .22CF does that mean my licence will still say on it 'muntjac and cwd', or do I have to ask for muntjac and cwd specifically?

 

Thanks

 

 

Page 77, Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police, "Good Reason to Possess a Firearm", .243 is "approved" for fox!

 

This covers Wales as well, so there should be no issue getting a .243 for fox!!

 

It is another thing all together if they suggest the land (for whatever reason) is not suitable for .243!

 

If you get a .22CF for fox you need to specify Muntjac and CWD...do you have any CWD there at all??? It is very unlikely they will just condition it for the deer if you do not ask, and they may still not even if you do ask!!

[waidmann 105]

Minimum legal calibre for Muntjac and CWD in England and Wales is .220 CF, minimum Muzzle Energy 1000 ft.lbs. Hornet is not sufficiently powerful, .222, .223, 22-250 are all up to spec. Minimum calibre for Roe in England and Wales is .243. You do not need .308 for any quarry in the UK except Wild Boar.

 

BUT! You suggest that .22lr is not much more than air-gun power. Stop now. .22lr, subsonic, at 400 yards, is still travelling at 500fps and carrying 28 ft.lbs energy. That is more than enough to kill an adult human, and if you hit a kiddy . . . Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that distance = safety.

 

ATB

 

Ric

 

fairy nuff, I just meant I can't kill anything more with a rim fire than I can kill with the shotgun/air rifle... it's all about the food mate.

 

after speaking to my friendly farmer, my FEO, a chap I know who hunts, and a chap from here who very kindly gave me a call, I've formulated a plan.

 

The 150 acre farm is in fact about 70- acres on one side of a road, and the rest on the other. FEO advises this is not big enough for a centrefire.

 

Soooo, it just so happens that the in-laws are welsh hill farmers, none of them shoot, but they do have a 300 acre farm on the side of a big welsh moutain with no footpaths, and hardly anyone around. I think I'm going to try and get permission to shoot foxes on that land, then wait out the 3 years for an open licence - shooting down there when I can... apparently if I put down that I want a .22CF on the licence, I can have all the way up to a .22250, and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

I can then spend the 3 years trying to find more land up here, and getting to know some deer stalking type people

 

 

i'm not being funny bud but to say"i can't kill anything more with a rimfire than with an air rifle /shotgun" seems to me (for someone who has done his homework)a tad weak.

a rimfire/shotgun are more than capable of killing a cow let alone a human(god forbid).i think that gaining experiance and knowledge in these matters will do you more good in gaining a certificate than extra permission in wales and a "cunning plan".

this may be about "free food" bud but its also a WEAPON that is only good for one thing and is potentially a danger to the public.

no one starts off knowing everything(nor will most of us die being more than well informed)but i think a little reading may well do this thread and you some good.

if the whole thing is about "free food"i would suggest trying beating and helping out on a shoot(which will certainly get you a brace here and there).rabbiting etc will also provide your freezer with protein and you with experiance.

don't jump into something with both feet( no matter how appealing) it may dissapoint you.(i spent eight years watching and learning before i even thought of doing my hunting licence in germany,had a trained dog,then spent a long time going to university in the evenings to gain the qualification,the man who mentored me died last year. the "old fashioned" traditional ways of working game i have the privelidge of i owe to him.)

i find the the "free food" thing perfectly legitimate(as a sportsman and a very big fan of all things game/food) but we/you owe it to the quarry to be well informed.