omegathelast
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Posts posted by omegathelast
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The Bill has been passed. Rabbiting is now illegal in Scotland.
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It is correct and something I have been posting on here for some time. The Act will also include enhanced stop and search powers and deprivation orders banning offenders from keeping dogs.
The SNP promised the ‘Greens’ they would look at hunting based on their coalition agreement which is actually all about Sturgeons independence dream. Sadly, the fieldsports community in Scotland have done very little to rebut this, presumably hoping it will go away. Well it hasn’t. The whole thing is flawed but it’s been allowed to get to this stage which is now probably too late. Sad.-
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13 hours ago, Mouldiwarp said:
The Alliance is running e petitions where you type in your post code and it automatically emails a standard letter to all your local MSPs. You don’t have to be a member just go on their web page
You can access the link to the e-lobby on the CA update at beginning of this thread. Just click on the e-lobby words.
I still think urgent direct liaison with your MSP through letter or face to face is far better as the e-lobby is more to do with fox control and the licensing system. Do both! The CA and others are suggesting to the Scottish Government that the way to exclude rabbits from an effective total ban is for land owner permission to be required. That is exactly the same situation as in the rest of the UK.
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There are no 'new hunting laws' only stiffer penalties for Hare Coursing/Poaching and it being much easier to now prosecute those allegedly involved. There are supposed to be safeguards embedded in the legislation for legitimate hunting on permission but I don't know what they are.
Obviously in Scotland there is a draft Bill progressing that will effectively outlaw ALL hunting with dogs except ratting and, at present, some limited terrier work but even that now looks at risk. All Lurcher work will be finished next year if the Bill is not amended.
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Lovely dog and pictures. I just hope she can continue doing what she is bred for and that the emerging SNP/Greens proposed ban on hunting rabbits fails. Hopefully the Scottish lurcher community with rally and do whatever it takes to persuade their SNPs to press for amendments to the Bill which is now at a critical stage. As it stands taking rabbits with dogs will be illegal sometime in the New Year unless amendments are made.
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The best thing anyone can do in Scotland is to urgently write to their MSP and urge them, at least, to press for rabbits to be removed from the definition of mammals in the emerging Bill. Explain how responsible humane lurcher work, works (ferreting etc) and why that part of your rural heritage and liberty to harvest natural food in this sustainable way should continue. Explain that there are more sensible ways to stop illegal hare poaching - as that is the main reason cited by the Scottish Government for including rabbits in the ban.
Some of the politicians in Holyrood are clearly being worked from behind by the antis who are relentless, so unless something is done NOW working Lurchers are finished for good in Scotland, sadly. Its ok saying ignore the ban etc but don’t forget there will be in parallel harsh penalties. And why ignore such a blatant misinformed attack on your way of life, liberty and heritage.
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An update on the Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill
WWW.COUNTRYSIDE-ALLIANCE.ORG
Director of the Scottish Countryside Alliance, Jake Swindells, provides an update on... -
https://www.countryside-alliance.org/News/2022/9/An-update-on-the-Hunting-with-Dogs-Scotland-Bill
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10 hours ago, Mouldiwarp said:
There is quite a lot going on with this at committee stage at the moment with the RAINE committee urgently seeking clarification from Scottish Government on numerous points especially why Rabbits have been included in the bill , how this will affect game shooting and why two dogs when all evidence including governments own peer led review stated a pack was more effective and indeed desirable in welfare grounds . However the Minister for the Environment Mairi McAllan stated in a letter to the committee that a two dog limit was reasonable because an animal rights charity( Onekind ) says so !!! The Police want Rabbits added because it will remove the defence of I wasn’t hunting hares I was hunting rabbits which is utter nonsense as you can be equally prosecuted for hunting rabbits without permission. I have an official email from a Wildlife Crime Officer which states the don’t even use the hunting act ( protection of wild mammals Scotland act 2004 ) to prosecute hare coursers but use the Wikdlife and countryside act instead which is bizarrely the same act they use to deal with rabbit poaching. The minutes are well worth a read if nothing else to see the level of ignorance and hypocrisy that exists with our politicians. Anyone reading this in Scotland should make an appointment to see their MSP or at least write to them Oh and stop voting SNP . This year alone the are introducing the Hunting with dogs act, legislation to licence grouse shooting and now a review of firearms licensing . Death by a thousand cuts.
This is exactly it. The only hope North of the Border now is that the Scottish field sports community come together to lobby their respective MSP’s like crazy. As it stands, alongside hound work with more than two dogs and bizarrely trail hunting, all lurcher work and rabbiting will be illegal. Whilst the Raine Committee have asked for clarification on the justification for adding rabbits to the ban, it’s was more to do with issues raised by BASC in the committee stage. Nobody defended lurcher work in the various sessions AND, sadly, the non-shooting fieldsports community have been generally very quiet, whereas the small minority of vociferous and motivated animal rights groups are very active in Holyrood, clearly working some of the SNP and Green politicians from behind.
This has, of course, all come about as a result of Sturgeons pact with (urban) Greens , so tradition and your rural heritage has been caught squarely in the crossfire of her independence obsession.
All a bit sad really, but there’s still time.
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Great to see.
I just hope you guys north of the border can persuade your MSP’s to ditch, or at least alter, the Scottish Government backed draft legislation that is currently going through your Parliament which would finish ALL that is left of traditional lurcher work in Scotland by defining Rabbits as mammals for the purposes of the Act and therefore it would be an offence to catch or even attempt to catch (hunt) them with a dog. The flushing exemption does not help you. Otherwise posts like yours will sadly soon be a thing of the past.
Good Luck.
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2 hours ago, terryd said:
So no license if you use less than two dogs so ferreting is ok and trail hunting will be ended so that is packs done
It has a long way to go yet though so hopefully they stop itBut I don’t think it will if the intent or consequence is for the dog to catch the rabbit in any circumstance. As drafted lurcher work is effectively finished in Scotland. Only rats and mice are exempt.
There has been pressure from political lobbyists (Rabbits Have Rights is one) close to the Greens etc to end ‘rabbit coursing’ which of course we all know is a nonsense and that there is no such thing.
The Scottish fieldsports/lurcher community are surprisingly apathetic and are doing almost nothing to counter the misinformation and/or defend this traditional form of pest control and sustainable harvesting of food north of the border. I know this having spoken to someone involved in the debates at Government level who says ‘almost nobody is doing anything’
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13 hours ago, terryd said:
What pup have you got a gundog? There will no flying under the radar with lurchers if this goes through
Exactly..
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14 hours ago, saluki bouy said:
The way I see it is play the game and play it right the boys on fens since ban have carried on and worked with in restrictions
hunts have done the same with gun packs owls etc they’ve had least change so far and killed more foxes per day out
me myself have a 5 month old pup first in 8 years that I’m going to be serious with work wise I’ve cleared out all my books unfollowed everything on Facebook will get rid of this when time come and shotgun license applied for and I’ll “work within the regulations”
there’s not a body or group up here that have any leavarge and why would I choose to put my head above the parapet and not be able to move
These animal lovers have no clue and how they have the energy or time to give that much of a feck about it is beyond me there scoring points on the socially moral scale about traditions they don’t understand or effect there day to day life but it makes them feel “better” they don’t think about the thousands of hares shot after Waterloo cancelled or the hounds and horses that will be put down if hunt kennels close
I understand what you are thinking but why keep your head down? You are defending something that is perfectly legal and entirely justifiable at present and, frankly, something that doesn’t bother most ordinary people in society. This has all come as a result of the deal Sturgeon did with the Greens to support her independence dream.
It will be nothing short of a disaster for anyone who wants to work a lurcher in Scotland if the Act is passed and a sad day.
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On 14/03/2022 at 12:57, terryd said:
Well I emailed basc and they rang me today in fairness . Nothing much will change if it does go through and you can still use one or two dogs to flush hunt and catch a rabbit for example.
He also said when the government or Basc ask for the surveys to be filled out it is important we do so as they take notice. For example one was sent out in Wales recently to do with game birds and out of 7000 members in wales only 200 did it.
So they are trying
Having looked at this again, this can’t be right; it will definitely be unlawful to hunt rabbits with a dog. So catching rabbits with a lurcher, whippet or terrier will be illegal in Scotland.
I’m absolutely astounded how little reaction to this proposed measure there is, even in publications like CM and zero commentary from the CA etc. Perhaps worse the Scottish lurcher community seem content to just sit back and see there way of life taken away in a matter of months by a few misinformed and prejudiced politicians being pressured by highly motivated animal rights groups. Crazy.
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On 14/03/2022 at 12:57, terryd said:
Well I emailed basc and they rang me today in fairness . Nothing much will change if it does go through and you can still use one or two dogs to flush hunt and catch a rabbit for example.
He also said when the government or Basc ask for the surveys to be filled out it is important we do so as they take notice. For example one was sent out in Wales recently to do with game birds and out of 7000 members in wales only 200 did it.
So they are trying
I hope they are right in terms of being able to catch rabbits with dogs but that’s not how I read it. Yes you can hunt and flush (to a gun) utilising the exemptions but I’m pretty sure conventional lurcher work would fall foul of the legislation and be unlawful if Act is passed.
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1 hour ago, nothernlite said:
It is the Greens that are behind this who were obviously given assurances on this a many other of their policies, in return for backing Sturgeons independence obsession.
The detail of the exemptions make no sense whatsoever but the onus will be on the lurcher owner to demonstrate such exemptions each time. Totally unnecessary and perilous. Tightening up of the drafting might just save whippet and lurcher work north of the border. At the moment, it’s not looking good.
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Seems to me the Scottish lurcher/fieldsports community need to go on the offensive as the Irish did/do, rather than sitting back moaning about what is surely inevitable otherwise. The starting point is to get rabbits exempted in the emerging bill as in the current legislation. Catching rabbits with birds of prey will remain lawful, for example, so why is there a proposed ban on dogs; that’s not a question for here but one of many to present to MSP’s etc.
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Seems to me the Scottish lurcher/fieldsports community need to go on the offensive as the Irish did/do, rather than sitting back moaning about what is surely inevitable otherwise. The starting point is to get rabbits exempted in the emerging bill as in the current legislation. Catching rabbits with birds of prey will remain lawful, for example, so why is there a proposed ban on dogs; that’s not a question for here but one of many to present to MSP’s etc.
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Lovely looking dog.
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11 minutes ago, nothernlite said:
Ca dont makeme laugh do notbing but condem hare coursing and sacs been a member had bother with my dog taking a roe phoned for advice and just ignored it lurcher lads are the wrong yins with country sportz with the stuff thats posted on the internet and forums
You are 100% right about things being posted on social media and forums.
SACS have been trying to do something about the draft bill (including the rabbiting part) and the CA do have the ability to engage at Government level. You could still lobby the MSP’s. It worked in NI. Otherwise it’ll just happen and that’s a sad thought.
I’m pretty sure it’s technically unlawful to cross the border to have a terriers tail docked and whilst that is probably unenforceable, as it would be with rabbiting, it seems anything is possible, especially with the current political make up in Scotland! -
25 minutes ago, nothernlite said:
When is this to happen
The draft bill was published today. Probably take 6-12 months to go though the various stages but others will know better.
My advice is lobby your MSP’s, join SACS and CA and actively press them to raise the parts of the bill that will ruin your way of life. The CA seem to respond like it’s just about fox hunting, whereas the idea that a young lad going out for a day in the countryside to catch a rabbit with his ferret and whippet may be a criminal in the future is almost beyond belief.
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Sadly, as suspected and warned, the Scottish Government have published the draft legislation which would make ALL lurcher work illegal north of the border. They are adding rabbits to the ban, alongside restricting fox hunting severely.
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On 15/11/2021 at 23:41, Barrie said:
Countryman - Thank you (and others) for your very kind words, but none of this is about me I’m just a small part of a much larger and far more important team.
The real stars of the show are the men and women who work so hard to keep the terrier clubs up and running, and right through to each and every member of those clubs. Without the Clubs and the funding they provide, there would be no NWTF, no strength of numbers and terrierwork would be in a much more difficult position than it already is (which brings us in a full circle to the start and the original purpose of this thread).
To that end, it's important to be aware, in an attempt to further restrict hunting with dogs, the Scottish Government has launched a Public Consultation outlining their latest proposals. This CLOSES on 15TH DECEMBER and it is VITALLY IMPORTANT that everyone makes their views known before that date, regardless of where in the U.K. they live.
The consultation is a short online questionnaire (just 12 questions) and only takes a few minutes to complete and probably less than it's taken to read this thread. It’s available at: https://consult.gov.scot/environment-forestry/dog-use-to-control-foxes-and-wild-mammals/
We would urge you, your friends, family members and any other likeminded individuals who share our concerns to take the time to fill it in. NUMBERS REALLY DO COUNT AND YOU CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
BTTT. The Scottish consultation on hunting with dogs (including ratting and rabbiting) closes tomorrow.
Scotland abu
in Lurchers & Running Dogs
Posted
It is not business as usual, not even close. Lurcher work is finished in Scotland. It’s now illegal to hunt and/or catch a rabbit with a dog.