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Deer Management courses


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#31 2434me

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 11:06 pm

A ,
I think some of this could be down to firearms departments insisting on DSC qualifications before they will grant deer rifles.
Of course it is . It also means that newcomers will have some idea of what to do with a rifle when they get it !

B ,
Can anyone tell us why the BDS treat muntjak like vermin yet insist on a DSC qualification before you can shoot them.
Vermin or not ,they still command some respect as quarry,and they still have to enter the food chain .

C ,
An old chap took me under his wing 30 odd year ago, he new more about deer than anyone i have ever met, then the dsc was brought in and he was asked to do it or he would not be allowed to carry on,
I would have said that that was fairly and squarely an ignorant employer who demanded that !
(professional recognition ! in some form is required )
D ,
there is a lot of folk going into to stalking, yet we still have a ever mounting deer population,
but without the trophy bucks.

Going into stalking and shooting a beast is fairly easy !! Newcomers will have no idea of deer management /population control etc. The sad fact is that some of them couldnt give a shit about management and shoot the first deer they see and think they are doing well .


Stalking has become fashionable ,and with everything popular it will command a price . The more demand ,the higher the price .
Not just an awful lot we can do about that ?????

#32 Deker

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:36 am

Strange situations abound, I am a Deer Mentor, I have an Open FAC with all deer, but have no qualifications on deer, except lifes experience.....apparently this qualifies me in the eyes of the LAW to teach and train and supervise any oik in the art of stalking, gralloching, safety, hygiene, etc etc but leaves me out in the cold when it comes to gaining certain deer contracts.....

Seems more than a little daft!!! :hmm:

#33 2434me

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:22 pm

Unfortunately the LAW is an "ASS" sometimes!

#34 Deker

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:25 pm

Unfortunately the LAW is an "ASS" sometimes!



Careful...that could be viewed in 2 ways!!!! :hmm: :thumbs:

#35 markbivvy

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 04:09 pm

Vermin or not ,they still command some respect as quarry,and they still have to enter the food chain .
some dont, even a lot of roe never leave the field they die on.
once its dead how much more respect can you show at dead animal.
a good few farmers i know still regard them with the same contempt as rabbits, and as such get shot.


Strange situations abound, I am a Deer Mentor, I have an Open FAC with all deer, but have no qualifications on deer, except lifes experience.....apparently this qualifies me in the eyes of the LAW to teach and train and supervise any oik in the art of stalking, gralloching, safety, hygiene, etc etc but leaves me out in the cold when it comes to gaining certain deer contracts.....

Seems more than a little daft!!!
a little daft, its pathetic mate.

how many shooting accidents happened to stalkers before the dsc was invented.
was food poisoning prolific before it.
did tb and such run riot in deer.
Iam no deer stalker, i dont know the answers but from the outside looking in,the deer are no better of now than they where a good few years back.

#36 2434me

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:24 pm

even a lot of roe never leave the field they die on.

The ANTI,S would love that one ?????? Why cant they be taken to the Game dealer or put in the freezer ????

#37 markbivvy

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:27 pm

some farmers and shooters simply dont want them i presume.

#38 Night Hunter

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:38 pm

this is yet another sport that is being eaten away from inside all due to greed and expierienced stalkers will be lost forever because they do not want someone possibly less qualified than themselves deciding wheather or not they are competant at the job they have been doing for possibly 25-30 years,if it was all about deer welfare why do bds not run seminars or training sesions free of charge that people must attend prior to being granted a stalking rifle or include question papers with the aplication to aquire a stalking rifle, it is only my opinion but it seems that it is only the people that have bought these qualifications that are in favour of them.. :censored:



does buying a piece of paper make you a better stalker than guys who have been doing it for years ...i think not ........ :no: :no: :no:

does a one day course make you as competant as a time served butcher ......definately not...... :no: :no: :no:

does being accompanied by a person who has paid for his accreditation certifacates and could possibly be less expierienced than you make you sick... :sick: :yes: :yes: :yes: :sick:

what formal teaching qualifications do the people have that are providing this training and what formal examination qualifications do the acreddited witnesses have ?????

i think that before anyone can teach and charge for it they should serve a recognised 4 year teacher training course as should accradited witnesses who should also complete a recognised course on examination and both must be a fully qualified game keepers with a minimum 5 years stalking expierience ..then the certifacates might be worth the paper they are written on, i will be recommending this in a letter that i am sending to the scottish parlement regarding these certifacates and i urge everyone to write in because if we dont it will get passed on the word of the people who stand to gain from it financialy

people have been shooting deer for hundreds of years but now we must all pay for the privalage :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

it seem that some of our fellow hunters are doing the antis a favour by pricing us out of our sport well done guys :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:

Edited by Night Hunter, 19 March 2009 - 09:14 pm.


#39 harry mac

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:11 pm

i think that before anyone can teach and charge for it they should serve a recognised 4 year teacher training course as should accradited witnesses who should also complete a recognised course on examination and both must be a fully qualified game keepers with a minimum 5 years stalking expierience ..then the certifacates might be worth the paper they are written on, i will be recommending this in a letter that i am sending to the scottish parlement regarding these certifacates and i urge everyone to write in because if we dont it will get passed on the word of the people who stand to gain from it financialy

So to combat the rise in qualifications you propose yet more qualifications. Who on earth is going to enrol on a four year (or 1 year post graduate) teacher training course to teach deer management? Why would it be necessary?
The only people who need to do teacher training qualifications are school teachers, otherwise where does it end? Will people who teach brick laying or carpentry need a 4 year teaching degree?
These courses (DSC etc.) will eventually be compulsory, I firmly believe that, I don't like it and I certainly don't agree with it, but it's on the cards.
I also firmly believe that it will do field sports great harm and pave the way for the eventual banning of them. As I said in a previous post the UK has one of (if not THE) the largest numbers of field sports participants in europe, introducing compulsory testing will seriously deplete those numbers.
The flaw in the logic behind these courses is that for the most part country sports people are reasonable human beings who don't relish the fact that someone doesn't like them or what they do. They therefore try to demonstrate that they observe the highest standards of professionalism and behaiviour in an attempt to show those who don't like them that they really have nothing to fear. What this fails to take into account is that for the most part the people who want to see an end to country sports are far from reasonable people, their only goal is to see an end to all field sports, full stop and they don't give a toss how professional we are or how much respect we demonstrate for our quarry.

#40 2434me

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:53 pm

Post 38,

Sorry Nighthunter ,but your post 38 is probably the singlemost useless post on the thread so far !!!

I have said my piece and hopefully explained my position fairly well . But faced with a post like that ,I wont be wasting any more time on this thread .

#41 Night Hunter

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:55 pm

i think that before anyone can teach and charge for it they should serve a recognised 4 year teacher training course as should accradited witnesses who should also complete a recognised course on examination and both must be a fully qualified game keepers with a minimum 5 years stalking expierience ..then the certifacates might be worth the paper they are written on, i will be recommending this in a letter that i am sending to the scottish parlement regarding these certifacates and i urge everyone to write in because if we dont it will get passed on the word of the people who stand to gain from it financialy

So to combat the rise in qualifications you propose yet more qualifications. Who on earth is going to enrol on a four year (or 1 year post graduate) teacher training course to teach deer management? Why would it be necessary?
The only people who need to do teacher training qualifications are school teachers, otherwise where does it end? Will people who teach brick laying or carpentry need a 4 year teaching degree?
These courses (DSC etc.) will eventually be compulsory, I firmly believe that, I don't like it and I certainly don't agree with it, but it's on the cards.
I also firmly believe that it will do field sports great harm and pave the way for the eventual banning of them. As I said in a previous post the UK has one of (if not THE) the largest numbers of field sports participants in europe, introducing compulsory testing will seriously deplete those numbers.
The flaw in the logic behind these courses is that for the most part country sports people are reasonable human beings who don't relish the fact that someone doesn't like them or what they do. They therefore try to demonstrate that they observe the highest standards of professionalism and behaiviour in an attempt to show those who don't like them that they really have nothing to fear. What this fails to take into account is that for the most part the people who want to see an end to country sports are far from reasonable people, their only goal is to see an end to all field sports, full stop and they don't give a toss how professional we are or how much respect we demonstrate for our quarry.


my main emphisis is to stop people using this as a cash generator ie joe blogs with no shooting experience and little or no stalking experience buying this qualification and thinking he knows more than the guy who has the relevent experience,i have been stalking only roe deer for about 9 years i do not sell the deer/venison , i shoot to fill my freezer i have no inclination to move on to other types of deer so my knowlege is limited to the quarry i hunt but if the law changes i will be required to have these certs,i am by no means an expert, but if i buy these qualifications i could become an accredited witness or in theory set up and train others ......at the very least trainers or witnesses should be professional gamekeepers or stalkers with proven expertise in the field over all diciplines covered by the certificates that they can issue just as apprentices are trained by qualified tradesmen who have served a recognised apprenticeship in thier chosen dicipline

#42 Night Hunter

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 12:01 am

Post 38,

Sorry Nighthunter ,but your post 38 is probably the singlemost useless post on the thread so far !!!

I have said my piece and hopefully explained my position fairly well . But faced with a post like that ,I wont be wasting any more time on this thread .



no need to be sorry ,im sorry that we will be loosing the knowledge of the many professional stalkers who will not pay for these certs this is only my opinion and each to thier own

#43 tommydeer

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:31 pm

Post 38,

Sorry Nighthunter ,but your post 38 is probably the singlemost useless post on the thread so far !!!

I have said my piece and hopefully explained my position fairly well . But faced with a post like that ,I wont be wasting any more time on this thread .



no need to be sorry ,im sorry that we will be loosing the knowledge of the many professional stalkers who will not pay for these certs this is only my opinion and each to thier own


2434me, i'll have to disagree with you. Its not about slating someone because of their opinion. i could quite happily sit here and slate you...who are you to tell us all how it is and how it should be. Throughout the post you've twisted it to sound as though your opinion is the only one that matters. Yes you may well be in a deer job which gives you more punch to your opnion, but so too am i, a very good one.

However you have to look at things from every angle, not just, "oh its here now so thats how it is". Correct, the paperwork is here now, people pass it, people dont. Try not to sound above your station though, we're all equals and we all have the right to our opinions, some right, some wrong buts its not for others to decide that, theyre here to debate it, thats why its a forum!!!!!

I do agree with you on some topics, there should be some type of recognition for professionals, and these people should be brought in to help educate those who are interested. Part time recreational stalkers arent good enough to sit and teach novices, its the same in any walk of life.

#44 Deker

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:40 pm

Post 38,

Sorry Nighthunter ,but your post 38 is probably the singlemost useless post on the thread so far !!!

I have said my piece and hopefully explained my position fairly well . But faced with a post like that ,I wont be wasting any more time on this thread .


Chill out....that's more than a little harsh, I consider there to be vaild points in that post and many of yours..to be honest I could also say that 35 years plus shooting experience on my part qualifies me FAR better than any daft piece of paper acquired after a few days of study!!!

#45 Night Hunter

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:43 pm

Thankyou, tommydeer and decker ,i am all for educating newcomers to stalking ,but to me the best people to learn from are people who have experience and who can pass on thier vast knowledge to others we should be welcoming people into fieldsports not pricing them out of it ,i am afraid that i was spoiled in the repect that i have a friend who does a considerable amount of stalking and he has passed some of his knowledge on to me and after nine years i am still learning from him and i thouroughly enjoy when he has spare time to come out on a stalk with me and i sincerely hope that i can pass what i have learned on to someone someday ''FREE OF CHARGE'' just as it was given to me...........and i hope that i am not simply priced out of a sport that i love

Edited by Night Hunter, 20 March 2009 - 08:45 pm.



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