Definition of "public place"

[othickman 6]

Just a quick question: what is the definition of a public place as opposed to private premises. I think it's privately owned rather than council owned sort of thing, but my dad thinks it's done on whether or not members of the general public go across there: a field with a large barbed fence is private, one with no obvious barriers, if used by the public, counts as a public place...?

 

I hope I've been clear

 

Oh, and our source:

1) No person under the age of 18 may purchase, hire or be given an airgun or ammunition.

2) A person in this age group may shoot unsupervised on private land with the permission of the landowner but must be supervised by somebody over the age of 21 if in a public place. It should be noted that this means that a person aged seventeen and a half who may have a driving licence cannot take an air rifle from home to his club to shoot unless the gun is possessed by somebody over the age of eighteen or the seventeen and a half-year old is supervised by a person over the age of twenty-one.

Edited August 17, 2009 by othickman

[Guest AngelicAcid]

All land belongs to someone basically, and permission is needed everywhere.

[Guest jt750]

if you mean is it public if its accessed by the public then yes i believe so..For example a private field or land which is not owned by the coucil and used by dog walkers can be deemed a public place. This means the local dog warden can also give you a ticket for not picking up after your dog even tho its private land. And he will tell you any area used by the public can be deemed a public place no matter who owns the land

[bobndog 0]

A real can of worms this one;

 

Public Place under the Road Traffic Act

 

In order for it to be proven that somewhere is a "Public Place" for the purposes of road traffic offences it must be shown by the prosecution that:

 

Those people who are admitted to the place in question are members of the public and are admitted as such, not as members of some special or particular class of the public (eg people belonging to an exclusive club) or as a result of some special characteristic that is not shared by the public at large, and;

 

Those people are so admitted with the permission, express or implied, of the owner of the land in question.

 

(DPP v Vivier [1991]RTR 205)

 

Places that have stated cases that show them to be public places are:

 

1. A privately-owned Caravan site open to campers (DDP v Vivier [1991] RTR 205)

 

2. A school playground used outside of school hours as a leisure park by members of the public (Rodger v Normand 1994 SCCR 861)

 

3. The "Inward Freight Immigration Lanes" at Dover Eastern Docks (DPP v Coulman [1993] RTR 230)

 

4. A field used in connection with an agricultural show (Paterson v Ogilvey 1957 SLT 354)

 

5. A Multi Storey car park (Bowman v DPP [1991] RTR 263)

 

Ref; http://www.penaltychargesforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43286

[SEAN3513 7]

the reason for asking is what??

 

are you using this land to shoot or are you just crossing it??

 

if you are shooting you will know the answer to your question hopefully ???

 

cheers

 

sean

[othickman 6]

This is just a discussion between me and my dad about shooting: I'm 14, and the quote in the original post (I just noticed I cut out "Persons over the age of 14 but under 18:". Because in a private place, with permission, obviously, someone such as me in the aforementioned age category does not need supervision, but in a "public place" I would. My opinion is that a public place is like a road, or council owned place sort of thing, but my dad's opinion is that a public place is anywhere that members of the general public are able to go be it with permission or otherwise. So if I'm right, a fields that get a few trespassing dogwalkers a day (not masses) all that would be essential is just a rope across all places of entrance with a sign saying something like 'shooting in progress, please do not trespass" and when I go I take the signs down. But if he's right, a lot of those sort of fields, would require me to be supervised whilst shooting ... which I'm hoping is wrong because then my shooting could only happen when one of my parents are there with me ...

 

Cheers.

[SEAN3513 7]

ah right.....i see what you mean now.

 

i would suggest a public place is somewhere that ANYONE can go without permission.

 

which would not be a privately owned field........even if they are walking their dogs....THEY shouldn't be there.

 

but, if you are walking / cycling to your permission you would need to be supervised until you get there .

 

if that makes sense ???

 

cheers

 

sean

[Phantom 631]

A private place is any private land that you have permission to shoot on.

If a dog walker is walking his mutts on it without permission (unless a public footpath exists and he remains on it) it is still private land. In that case the mutt walker can be prossecuted (unless he is on the footpath) for trespassing (Tresspass is a civil offence BTW unless the place is like a court yard and has clearly defind borders and is signposted. Then the tresspasser can be done under some very old Criminal Law, cant remeber the name but the last time I arrested someone under this law was at 02:30 on the 1st January back in 2004!).

 

So a public place is common land, such as a street, a park, a beach etc.

 

A private place is land that is owned by a named individual.

 

Phantom

[Phantom 631]

Yah beat me to it again Sean

 

Phantom

[othickman 6]

Cheers guys, I'll bear that in mind, now I've just got to design a good little road block for all major entrances: was thinking two bamboo sticks, some chickenwire and a sign. Should do the job (nothing thats free or cheap could stop them coming in if they actively wanted to) and can roll up and place somewhere out of the way when not in use (or be permanent (maybe)).

 

Thanks once again.