Chicken and the Egg question!

[bullmastiff 610]

Maybe a silly question but how do you get into stalking???

I know that to apply for a FAC you must have suitable land to shoot on, but to get land to shoot on you've got to prove to the landowner that you can control his deer population! Any landowner worth his salt is going to ask genuine questions that you can only answer truthfully, and the fact is I've never shot a centre fire rifle, let alone shot a deer!

I know it's not exactly a poor mans sport but as I don't have friends that stalk to take me out, I've got to do a training course (£390) just so I can take the DSC level 1 (£285) which might be £675 of wasted money if I can't get the permission?

I'm only after deer for the freezer or friends so won't be selling to a game dealer. Is there a cheaper way of doing it? (As you probably guessed, I haven't got that sort of money to waste!)

Both of the farms I have permission on for vermin already have the deer controlled, one by a single stalker I've never met (he only takes one or two a year) and the other by a bunch of cowboys in a pickup that shoot everything they see.

There must be guys like me who don't have stalking friends but have got into shooting? What would you recommend? asking Landowners for permission to shoot before I even get my FAC?

Going ahead and doing the courses on a just in case basis?

 

So opinions and advice please guys. I am serious about stalking so will find the money if needs be but I just don't want to have to explain to the wife why I spent £700 on a dead end!

 

Any thoughts and advice greatly apprieciated

 

Luke.

[Gimli 0]

Hi Luke, there are slightly less expensive ways of doing things.

 

I took centrefire rifle lessons at a local range and the trainer there agreed the Firearms Officer could contact him to certify I was a reasonable shot and, more to the point, knew about gun safety.

 

I already had pigeon/rabbit shooting permission on three farmers, so I asked the farmers if they would be willing to sign a letter agreeing to use of a rifle for rabbits/deer. After talking to the local firearms team, I drafted a letter which the main landowner signed for me.

 

I then contacted a guy called Roger Buss (runs the www.deerland.co.uk website). he spent a day with me giving me tuition and testing me on knowledge about deer, guns etc. He also took me to a range and tested my shooting (the day cost £150), then went for a seperate day's stalk with him. He contacted my firearms team when I put in my FAC application to certify a reasonable level of knowledge, gun safety and accuracy. As luck would have it, I was able to go out for a day with another stalker and shot a roe and a muntjac under his supervision and he was able to give evidence to the police of my suitability.

 

The result was that I got a FAC for .22 and .243. I don't have to do the DSC1 (but may do anyway) and Roger is my mentor and I have to satisfy him of my ability to stalk unaccompanied. When that happens, he will write to the firearms team and they will remove the mentor condition from my FAC. As it stands, I can now go out stalking with my own gun along with a stalker - which is good anyway as I have a lot to learn.

 

Good luck and PM me if you have any more detailed questions.

[Gez 0]

Bullmastif, I've been researching this as I'm going through the same process myself.

 

As another route, I have heard someone say that they joined their local rifle club and used this as cause for the FAC to be granted for the claibre required. They also said that they got deer included as quarry on their FAC by completing their DSC 1 and stating that althought they do not have permission on any particular piece of land, they intend to pay for their stalks on a per day basis (although this isn't cheap, at under 100 quid a time, its not horrifically expensive either). This option of 'pay per stalk' if you like, means that even if you didn't get permission from a local landowner straight away, it would allow you to persue the interest in stalking in the mean time. It would also give you weight of experience that would be beneficial when trying to convince a local landowner that you can safely control his deer population. It may also help you make contacts within your local area, which may lead to more shooting opportunities even if you fail to get your own permission straight away.

 

Obviously, this is someone else's advice that I am repeating, more experienced or knowledgeable members feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If you are going to be going down this route, it may also be an idea to call your local FEO and see what their thoughts are/ask thier advice as to whether this would be an acceptable route to getting your FAC. Also try calling your local rifle range and asking their advice regarding your FAC, and do a search to find out anyone local to you who offers accompanied stalks.

 

The guy local to me who offers accompanied stalks does cater for the novice and has estate rifles that he can lend you (so you don't necessarily have to invest in a rifle to shoot a deer) provided of course that you can demonstrate adequate marksmanship.

 

Gimli, do you mind me asking how long you spent on rifle lessons before contacting Roger?

 

Gez

[Gimli 0]

Hi Gez, I had 3 hour long lessons using a .22 at first and then concentrating on .243. I think because I'd already had a lot of air rifle experience, after the third lesson the tutor said I was easily good enough to shoot safely. A few weeks later I went on my first stalk and got two clean kills with my only 2 shots - one at about yards and one at 60.

 

That stalker and Roger also tested my shooting on outdoor ranges (100m and 50m) and were happy to tell the police that I was pretty accurate and safe.

[bullmastiff 610]

Sorry for my late reply guys and thank you for yours, by the looks of things a rifle range/club seems to be the best port of call to start on the road to a FAC. I've found a few in my area, Bridport probably being the closest. There doesn't seem to be much info of gun clubs/ranges so it makes it quite difficult to find the nearest to your local area.

Here's one of the few links I could find,

http://www.basc.org.uk/media/club_directory.pdf

Some areas are covered thoroughly, others, like mine seems to just have the name of the club and a contact no. which means you've got to phone them all to find the nearest club.

I'm working in Bristol this week so won't be able to sort anything until the weekend but will definately contact them about arranging some coaching lessons. Hayling Island is only about 75 miles from me so I could travel that for stalking lessons if required, although I'd prefer to find a local stalker offering pay per day stalking so will enquire about prices if the coaching lessons go's ok.

Could anyone tell me roughly what sort of price I'd be looking at? (for Roe I presume around here?) do you get to keep the deer you've shot or would that be extra?

 

On another note I've heard from a guy at work that a friend of his owns a private airfield that is smothered with rabbits at the moment, and he just want's them cleared. So would I be able to apply for a FAC for a .22 rimfire with this in mind? (if the landowner agrees?) or would it be cheaper to wait? (so I don't have to apply for a variation for a deer rifle?)

 

Thank you again for your replies and sorry for the length/amount of questions!

 

Regards

 

Luke.

[Gimli 0]

The cost can vary - if you have permission on a farm for shooting deer (as I have) then the farmer may not be really interested in what you shoot. I can take any deer I shoot. On another shooting area I have a land perm it to shoot there but pay £44 for an unaccmpanied shoot and then pay for the carcass (I've been told £40 for a roe and less for a muntie).

 

With rabbit shooting, apply for a .22 rimfire. put in for a FAC with both .22 and .243 - that's what I did. I got both but with a mentor condition on the 243. Ensure that you have rights to shoot5 in airfield and that it has been checked as safe for a .22 by the local firearms officer.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Gez 0]

Hi Luke

 

The guy near me who does accompanied stalks charges £90 per rifle (max 2 per guide, and max 4 in a group but he prefers just 1 or 2). He doesn't charge a trophy fee and if you want to buy the carcass you can depending on the quality and weight of the carcass (but he reckons usually between £25 and £35 for a roe). Its not ideal if you want to go out a lot, but for the odd outing to get me going its a bearable price for me. As Gimli said, when/if you get permission, it can cost you little more than your time and amunition.

 

And Gimili thanks... and congratulations on 2 shots and 2 clean kills! Thats a good record to start with!

 

Gez