Specific FAC question... calibre and deer

[clint 45]

many topic on here about geese, deer & animals to shoot, & many mant licence. My friend farmer get me licence for goose, permit & we shoot. But no one mention how to shoot here !

 

If you shoot all deer, & goose, you will have no animal for next year & rifle no longer needed. Is there a law to say how manage the weak, old, maybe inline breeded animal. Or you just shoot all !

 

You must shoot respectful, yes

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

many topic on here about geese, deer & animals to shoot, & many mant licence. My friend farmer get me licence for goose, permit & we shoot. But no one mention how to shoot here !

 

If you shoot all deer, & goose, you will have no animal for next year & rifle no longer needed. Is there a law to say how manage the weak, old, maybe inline breeded animal. Or you just shoot all !

 

You must shoot respectful, yes

 

Pardon?

[farmershort 0]

Minimum legal calibre for Muntjac and CWD in England and Wales is .220 CF, minimum Muzzle Energy 1000 ft.lbs. Hornet is not sufficiently powerful, .222, .223, 22-250 are all up to spec. Minimum calibre for Roe in England and Wales is .243. You do not need .308 for any quarry in the UK except Wild Boar.

 

BUT! You suggest that .22lr is not much more than air-gun power. Stop now. .22lr, subsonic, at 400 yards, is still travelling at 500fps and carrying 28 ft.lbs energy. That is more than enough to kill an adult human, and if you hit a kiddy . . . Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that distance = safety.

 

ATB

 

Ric

 

fairy nuff, I just meant I can't kill anything more with a rim fire than I can kill with the shotgun/air rifle... it's all about the food mate.

 

after speaking to my friendly farmer, my FEO, a chap I know who hunts, and a chap from here who very kindly gave me a call, I've formulated a plan.

 

The 150 acre farm is in fact about 70- acres on one side of a road, and the rest on the other. FEO advises this is not big enough for a centrefire.

 

Soooo, it just so happens that the in-laws are welsh hill farmers, none of them shoot, but they do have a 300 acre farm on the side of a big welsh moutain with no footpaths, and hardly anyone around. I think I'm going to try and get permission to shoot foxes on that land, then wait out the 3 years for an open licence - shooting down there when I can... apparently if I put down that I want a .22CF on the licence, I can have all the way up to a .22250, and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

I can then spend the 3 years trying to find more land up here, and getting to know some deer stalking type people

 

 

i'm not being funny bud but to say"i can't kill anything more with a rimfire than with an air rifle /shotgun" seems to me (for someone who has done his homework)a tad weak.

a rimfire/shotgun are more than capable of killing a cow let alone a human(god forbid).i think that gaining experiance and knowledge in these matters will do you more good in gaining a certificate than extra permission in wales and a "cunning plan".

this may be about "free food" bud but its also a WEAPON that is only good for one thing and is potentially a danger to the public.

no one starts off knowing everything(nor will most of us die being more than well informed)but i think a little reading may well do this thread and you some good.

if the whole thing is about "free food"i would suggest trying beating and helping out on a shoot(which will certainly get you a brace here and there).rabbiting etc will also provide your freezer with protein and you with experiance.

don't jump into something with both feet( no matter how appealing) it may dissapoint you.(i spent eight years watching and learning before i even thought of doing my hunting licence in germany,had a trained dog,then spent a long time going to university in the evenings to gain the qualification,the man who mentored me died last year. the "old fashioned" traditional ways of working game i have the privelidge of i owe to him.)

i find the the "free food" thing perfectly legitimate(as a sportsman and a very big fan of all things game/food) but we/you owe it to the quarry to be well informed.

 

 

 

I've had to think long and hard about this response, so as not to cause more misunderstandings to occur.

 

I have shot for a while now with a 12 bore, and an air rifle. I have shot all manner of birds, and fox, and rabbit and hare. I have been researching rifle shooting as and when i can for the last 12 months. I know where to shoot a deer to kill it cleanly. I know when not to take a shot. I know what a backstop is, and not to shoot without one.

 

In an ideal world, we would all be taught by our dads. Sadly this can't always be the case any more. i will certainly hope to teach my children when I have some, but I have to learn myself first! As for going out with an experienced old bloke... brill, where do I sign up? Sadly this isn't as easy as it perhaps could be either. I'm working my way in as best I can without being pushy with anyone.

 

Also, worth noting that I am aware that almost any post by any newbie on any specialist forum with illicit at least one reply of "get more qualifications", or "you're not experienced enough". Chicken and egg.

 

I'm in no way going to imply that i'm an expert in anything, BUT, I have shot, I have killed, I have gutted plenty, and I have eaten what I've killed.

 

I'm moving up to a new, more dangerous, but more effective weapon. I have no desire to go through the FAC stuff more times than necessary, and was simply asking general advice regarding my ambitions and experience. I'm not suggesting that from day 1 I'm going to go off and poach red deer.... BUT, people are more willing to teach someone with a FAC than not, and shooting is easier to come back one you're always licenced. chicken and egg again.

 

 

So... Given that my FEO has told me that he wont allow a .243 for foxes and muntjac alone. I think my favoured option is to apply for a .22CF on this land in wales, and perhaps a RF for the acre block in leicester. My only problem with that is it means buying 2 guns. I dont really think I'd be able to afford that, so given that fact, the .22CF looks like the more forward thinking option.

 

The plan with actually using the gun involves: buttering up some people to let me go shooting with them, and of course using the local range. Then hopefully I'll progress onto shooting alone at small quarry, up to foxes, maybe muntjac... and then, over the 3 years before I can open a licence I can hopefully find a friendly experienced deer stalker to teach me a thing or two... failing that, there's always DSC1.

 

ok... that response didn't pan out as cleanly as it did in my mind... suffice it to say, I'm trying the best I can to get knowledgeable but there comes a point with all things when a need for experience takes over.

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

Yes you are always going to get the 'more experience required' posts on whatever forum you write on, my advice is sift your replies for the info you think is useful and ignore the rest without taking anything to heart. There are lots of people hiding in the shadows of the internet waiting for someone like you to come along so they can demonstrate their vast 'knowledge' and manly prowess by slagging you off and not helping you out. However, most comments on this thread are relevant and you should consider a lot of the answers especially the ones aimed at not running before you can walk. Yes .243 is a cal that would suit all your needs but your knowledge of firearms (nothing like shotgun and air rifle) is a bit limited so I would suggest it is a bit early for you. Go for the .22lr on your small plot of land and then work your way up to the CF calibres. It takes time but you will find 90% of shooter started in this way. When you are comfortable and have spent time on-line, or wherever, gaining more knowledge, move on.

 

Find a shooting buddy somehow, offer your services as a lamp man with a regular foxer, anything like that. You can't expect to know it all from the start but it's not just about the shot placement and backstop.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,102]

Personally ,i feel strongly that anyone starting in rifle shooting should begin at the beginning.I mean with a .22lr.Its a very big step up from airgun and shotty and opens your eyes on the safety issue .Your feo can see you are responsible ,having used this for a while and the next re-issue ,you can apply for the .22 cf .This again is a huge leap up, not seen by some who take the deer courses and go straight in with a .243 or larger .You will learn more by going this road than any other .Fast passes are wrong in my eyes but its all about the money for some .Good luck in your application mate .

[adamthomas64 1]

as

 

 

Edited February 19, 2010 by adamthomas64

[adamthomas64 1]

...and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

No, not quite. To be able to shoot deer you must have deer specifically mentioned on your licence. In the case of a .22CF rifle it will state Muntjac and CWD in particular.

 

 

hi mate actually in leicester if you have on your ticket FOX AND ANY OTHER LEGAL QUARRY then you CAN shoot muntjac and cwd i know because this is a topic i posted myself on here as thats what it says on my ticket, and after lots of varied answers i contacted the my feo, and this is the same feo as farmershoot has and he told me if my ticket says FOX AND ANY OTHER LEGAL QUARRY then thats what i can shoot, and muntjac and cwd ARE legal quarry, i know it differs in different areas but this is how leicester do it, silly aint it

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

...and if I put 'foxes' as the reason, then I can also lawfully shoot any other reasonable quarry, i.e. munt jac and CWD....

 

Sound like a good/bad plan to anyone?

 

No, not quite. To be able to shoot deer you must have deer specifically mentioned on your licence. In the case of a .22CF rifle it will state Muntjac and CWD in particular.

 

 

hi mate actually in leicester if you have on your ticket FOX AND ANY OTHER LEGAL QUARRY then you CAN shoot muntjac and cwd i know because this is a topic i posted myself on here as thats what it says on my ticket, and after lots of varied answers i contacted the my feo, and this is the same feo as farmershoot has and he told me if my ticket says FOX AND ANY OTHER LEGAL QUARRY then thats what i can shoot, and muntjac and cwd ARE legal quarry, i know it differs in different areas but this is how leicester do it, silly aint it

 

Crackers mate Leicester must be the only force that does it that way. Bloody midlanders...

[RicW 67]

Watch it surry. We East Midlanders are all descended from Vikings. I was born in a Viking village, so don't push yer luck. I might just go bare sark!

[adamthomas64 1]

ha ha brilliant mate