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any one watching bbc2 scottland tue 10 may 9oc


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#31 EskdaleHawks

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:07 pm

I know where your coming from with regard to the rearing and release. I also accept that things are 'expected' and that if the numbers do not add up at the end of the season then there are some questions the need to be answered. That said the sole blame for bad returns cannot be laid at the door of raptors. I accept that gos's are the ultimate killing machine. They will take birds of all size throughout the year. They are however solitary birds only coming together during the breeding season. The same goes for spars. Buzzards will only take poults upto a certain size, this maybe due to the fact they have small feet and are not equipped to deal with large prey items. They usually leave them alone once they have left the pen. I have yet to see a buzzard take a full grown pheasant. They do not take 'extra' birds for training their young. They take prey to release for their young to chase, catch, kill andn eat. Therefore they take the same amount. Once a bird finds a pen it will return daily because you have provided a readily available food source. Why waste valuable energy hunting when you can have a takeaway? They take the easy option, just like you and I would, so stop blaming the birds for doing what come naturally, afterall it isn't their fault you put the birds there. As I have said before I accept what goes on but I am not comfortable with it. This was never meant to be a 'DIG' as you put at the keepering profession. I think it best that we aggree to dissagree and draw the subject to a close.

#32 Lab

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    Wasnt the carling....it was the tennents and the scrumpy.honest

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:21 pm

I know where your coming from with regard to the rearing and release. I also accept that things are 'expected' and that if the numbers do not add up at the end of the season then there are some questions the need to be answered. That said the sole blame for bad returns cannot be laid at the door of raptors. I accept that gos's are the ultimate killing machine. They will take birds of all size throughout the year. They are however solitary birds only coming together during the breeding season. The same goes for spars. Buzzards will only take poults upto a certain size, this maybe due to the fact they have small feet and are not equipped to deal with large prey items. They usually leave them alone once they have left the pen. I have yet to see a buzzard take a full grown pheasant. They do not take 'extra' birds for training their young. They take prey to release for their young to chase, catch, kill andn eat. Therefore they take the same amount. Once a bird finds a pen it will return daily because you have provided a readily available food source. Why waste valuable energy hunting when you can have a takeaway? They take the easy option, just like you and I would, so stop blaming the birds for doing what come naturally, afterall it isn't their fault you put the birds there. As I have said before I accept what goes on but I am not comfortable with it. This was never meant to be a 'DIG' as you put at the keepering profession. I think it best that we aggree to dissagree and draw the subject to a close.

Happy to draw it too an end but half the things you have agreed with me on so i'm beginning to wonder where you sit on the subject? You cant 'blame' any animal hunting for food to stay alive, i dont do that but you cant expect keepers/landowners to fork out extra money because a BOP has worked out it is easy pickings. I'm afraid the shooting world is a multi-million pound industry and supplies thousands of jobs up and done the counrty so if a few BOP's have to take a knock along the way then it should be legal too do so.....imo!!!!!!
Can i ask you on your views why the country decides to introduce birds like the Sea eagle back into areas when all they are going to be is a pest.......as you say the birds want to look after themselves but if they were not here in the first place then they would not get shot, poisoned or trapped..?

#33 EskdaleHawks

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 07:01 pm


I know where your coming from with regard to the rearing and release. I also accept that things are 'expected' and that if the numbers do not add up at the end of the season then there are some questions the need to be answered. That said the sole blame for bad returns cannot be laid at the door of raptors. I accept that gos's are the ultimate killing machine. They will take birds of all size throughout the year. They are however solitary birds only coming together during the breeding season. The same goes for spars. Buzzards will only take poults upto a certain size, this maybe due to the fact they have small feet and are not equipped to deal with large prey items. They usually leave them alone once they have left the pen. I have yet to see a buzzard take a full grown pheasant. They do not take 'extra' birds for training their young. They take prey to release for their young to chase, catch, kill andn eat. Therefore they take the same amount. Once a bird finds a pen it will return daily because you have provided a readily available food source. Why waste valuable energy hunting when you can have a takeaway? They take the easy option, just like you and I would, so stop blaming the birds for doing what come naturally, afterall it isn't their fault you put the birds there. As I have said before I accept what goes on but I am not comfortable with it. This was never meant to be a 'DIG' as you put at the keepering profession. I think it best that we aggree to dissagree and draw the subject to a close.

Happy to draw it too an end but half the things you have agreed with me on so i'm beginning to wonder where you sit on the subject? You cant 'blame' any animal hunting for food to stay alive, i dont do that but you cant expect keepers/landowners to fork out extra money because a BOP has worked out it is easy pickings. I'm afraid the shooting world is a multi-million pound industry and supplies thousands of jobs up and done the counrty so if a few BOP's have to take a knock along the way then it should be legal too do so.....imo!!!!!!
Can i ask you on your views why the country decides to introduce birds like the Sea eagle back into areas when all they are going to be is a pest.......as you say the birds want to look after themselves but if they were not here in the first place then they would not get shot, poisoned or trapped..?


Is it the country or is it the RSPB that decided to re-introduce such birds like the Whitetailed Eagle ( Britains largest BOP)? I cannot answer for the country. I personally think that it is a good sign that the eagles are breeding and increasing their range. They are at the very top of the food pyramid. If something goes wrong or is not right anywhere between the bottom and the top then the birds usually suffer. They are therefore a good indicator for the health of the ecosystem. All you have to do is look at what DDT did to the peregrine population. The birds were here long before man. They suffered at the hand of man. They have mearly been re-introduced that is all.

Here are some facts about White Tailed Eagles: White tailed Eagles were here over 3000 years ago. The remains of at least eight birds were found in the 3000 year old Tomb of Eagles on Orkney. They nested all over the UK, as far south as the Isle of White Last recored bird was there in 1780. The last known White tailed Eagle in the UK was a white bird (Albino) of 30yrs old. She had been protected by the locals on Shetland before she was shot in 1918. The WTE became extinct then. This was a direct result of persecution by farmers and gamekeepers. Records show that on one Scottish estate 1372 BOP were killed between 1837 and 1840 this inlcuded 27 WTE. Re-introduction began in 1968 with young birds being transported from eyries in Norway. source for this info SNH.

Edited by EskdaleHawks, 03 June 2011 - 07:05 pm.



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