Tomdhu
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Posts posted by Tomdhu
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Nature never lets anything go to waste. Here's an interesting clip from my CCTV cams...
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Useful information and I guess this confirms that rats don't like moving around in the open and will go the some lengths to avoid it.
With your agreement, I'd like to mention your story on my rat trapping guide at www.trrapbarn.com
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25 x Fenn Mk4 traps from £6.75 delivered
New product release !
NEW - Camouflage covered tunnel for Fenn traps.
Free promo gifts with minimum spends.
Check out these and more at https://trapbarn.com
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AdvertiserTomdhu
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Date24/06/18
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Price£169.00
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Category
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Fenn Mark4
New Fenn Mark4 traps from only £6.75 each delivered !
Until 15th May, Trap Barn is doing a deal on bundles of 25 Fenn traps.
You will ot get a better price anywhere.
Purchase direct from www.trapbarn.com
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AdvertiserTomdhu
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Date27/04/18
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Price
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Some young friends, who are very much in love with hedgehogs, were asking me about the risks to hedgehogs from spring traps that are deployed to kill rats and stoats. I said that most kill traps, like Fenns, by law have to be used with a tunnel to minmise the risk to non-target species but they weren't entirely convinced - particularly as I couldn't provide them with the size of the aperture to the tunnel that would exclude junior and adult hedgehogs whilst allowing access to a full sized male stoat or rat.
Can I ask what advice you might give on a suitable tunnel size and what recommendations you might have for minmising collateral damage to hogs?
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I have a few rats on the back ditch and looking at putting down a few traps.
What would you recommend?
I have read a few of the previous threads and the fenns and bodygrips seem to be popular.
Based in Ireland where's the best place to buy them.
Thanks for the help.
I'd go with the Fenns but the challenge is to sort out the genuine Fenns from the cheap Chinese imported look-alikes. The imported ones are not approved by DEFRA under STAO (2102) ans are illegal to use.
If you buy on Ebay the regular sellers of the geuine ones are itsareal1, moorlandspoultry , opuk2008, the-trap-man, 2013betsieboo , pestuk0118. fourteenacres and maverick060390.
There are two only two other brands that are" Fenn look-alikes" that are made to the same specification as the Fenns and are also approved. These are Springer and Solway. You can buy these with confidence.
Anything that does not have a brand name is certainly a fake as are the one just showing "MK4" or 07901551166
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Here's a design you might consider. The trigger mechanism is entirely inside so you can use it in a bank. Looking at the picture , the hinged end of the stay is on the red braket and the stay is mounted upside down. To to set you lift the door up and liftt the stay up so that the RH end latches on the peg. A tug on the cable pulls the stay off the peg. The bungees slam the door down and the door locks shut with a simple latch.
If you dont like the cable round the roller, then you could use a tilting treadle plate coupled to the stay with a rod or a cable. Then you could hang your bait from the roof of the cage.
If you prefer a drop door then you can use a short window stay latched into a peg in the door. When the stay is tugged from behind it comes off the peg and the door drops. Use a bungee to get a quick door response.
You can make your own but it is easier to set if you use a swivel one like this.Use this type of stay upide doen so that it only needs a slight tug from cable to release. It the falls down inside the cage.
Alternative type stay. This type of stay can be used upside down also
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Tom I actually borrowed a shopping trolley recently but I've not bothered making it as its smaller than the one im using at the.moment, however yours clearly catches foxes. Fenn, I may take you up if I have no success. My sister made me remove all my snares as I caught her cat twice and last time it had him pretty bad and nearly killed him. I've had snares pulled on a few fence holes that look suspicious before I removed them but it could of been rabbits. If in a few weeks still nothing I will pm you, would be interested to learn a bit about snaring the Charlie's as I've never managed one yet.
The shopping trolley variant is more than ample size because the key feature is the strong bungees. They slam the door shut so fast and forceful that if the fox is even part way out, it will shove it them back inside. The door only latches when fully closed so you will never get one half in half out and screaming blue murder. Have monitored with a night cam and it is more than ample size. Have not had one escape yet.
The only criticism I would have of it is the weight so I'm going to take the angle grinder and increase the size of the holes in the mesh and also take out some of the re-inforcement. These trolleys are really well built and being stainless steel they will last a lifetime. Drop me a PM with your email if you want photos off the trigger.
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This looks familiar Walshie.LOL. Got mine set as we speak. Never thought of bungee chords though. Still a bounty on these carriages is there?? Jok.
Yes there is. For £100 i'd rather buy a proper one than have my garden look like the bottom of a canal.
Why knock it? It works a treat and it cost me nowt.
Has since been painted in "Nato Green" matt , clad with some green astro-turf and located under some laurels.
P.S. I wish I was as rich as you. Could you spare me an odd £100?
I didn't knock yours. I knocked jok's. Quit being so sensitive. Anyway, I can guarantee one catches a lot more than the other. That's why they make them.
And if I choose to spend my money on the correct tool for a job, surely that's my business.
Sorry, but I thought the wind up was for me as the only pic on view was mine.
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This looks familiar Walshie.LOL. Got mine set as we speak. Never thought of bungee chords though. Still a bounty on these carriages is there?? Jok.
Yes there is. For £100 i'd rather buy a proper one than have my garden look like the bottom of a canal.
Why knock it? It works a treat and it cost me nowt.
Has since been painted in "Nato Green" matt , clad with some green astro-turf and located under some laurels.
P.S. I wish I was as rich as you. Could you spare me an odd £100?
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It's easy to make your own if you can get a discarded shopping trolley and use an angle grinder. Plus two bungee cords. Look up Youtube to see how it's done. Here is mine
Door is held open by the black pipe which has a notch cut near the right hand end. Notch is hooked on mesh of trolley. Taking the bait unlatches notch and so door falls down and latches. Door action is fast due to the two red bungee cords.
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Not passed for use in Wales
Not passed for use in Scotland either and unlikely to be becaus eof the Red Squirrels having Section 5 protection.
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Goodnature recommend that they are eplaced 10cm above ground. Good height for rats, stoats, hedgehogs and red squirrels.It's all about being aware of your target species ... it's simple to locate the good nature trap to a position that would make it impossible for it to kill a hedgehog but can still kill rats ... it only takes a tiny bit of thought .....
Putting them higher would minmise hedgehog kills but it would still make a mess of red squirrels.
Tom
Then you wouldn't use them in an area populated by red squirrels the same as you wouldn't use a fenn or body grip or Kania etc etc etc .......
But if you are after stoats, what do you do because stoats and red squirrels often co-exist in the same habitat? Or they certainly used to when I was growing up in the Highlands.
Just noticed on the goodnature website it says that hedgehogs are excellent swimmers and climbers so putting the A24 higher than 10-12cms might not make them safe for hedgehogs.
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It's all about being aware of your target species ... it's simple to locate the good nature trap to a position that would make it impossible for it to kill a hedgehog but can still kill rats ... it only takes a tiny bit of thought .....
Goodnature recommend that they are eplaced 10cm above ground. Good height for rats, stoats, hedgehogs and red squirrels.
Putting them higher would minmise hedgehog kills but it would still make a mess of red squirrels.
Tom
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They were deliberately designed to be low maintenance - hence the log life lure and the gas canister for auto-resetting. The cannister can have a life of up to six months.
These requirements were for use in remote environments where daily inspections woud be both impractical and costly. They are intended to be "set and forget".
My guess is that if someone shelled out for one at £133 each, they wouldn't want the hassle of checking it every day.
They are designed to be low maintenance in their native New Zealand. That does not necessarily make them a low maintenance trap here. The gas cannisters have a life not measured in time but applications. if for example two were set in different locations. One on a hill side for stoats and one in a pig shed for rats. Would they both last six months?
Until you can come up with the actual laws regarding the use of the said traps, I would say speculating is not the way forward.
TC
The law that applies is the Spring Traps Approval Order 2012. They achieved approval via Statutory Instrument No 1427 of 2015. Here it is:-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1427?view=extent&timeline=true
Tom
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They were deliberately designed to be low maintenance - hence the log life lure and the gas canister for auto-resetting. The cannister can have a life of up to six months.
These requirements were for use in remote environments where daily inspections woud be both impractical and costly. They are intended to be "set and forget".
My guess is that if someone shelled out for one at £133 each, they wouldn't want the hassle of checking it every day.
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I write to on a matter of concern relating to Britain’s native wildlife.
Under the Spring Trap Approval Order (2012), last year, DEFRA approved a new vermin “trap” - ostensibly to kill stoats and rats, but DEFRA overlooked the fact that it also kills red squirrels and hedgehogs.
What makes this trap lethal for endangered species is that it is non discriminatory and has the ability to auto-reset. It is powered by a compressed gas capsule which enables it to make the kill, release the body and then reset itself automatically. Again and again for 6 months!
This kill trap cannot differentiate between species. Furthermore, because it releases the kill, any scavenger or predator can remove the body so there is no way of knowing how many or what was killed.
The trap is imported from New Zealand where it was designed to kill hedgehogs which have become a pest there after they were imported from the UK.
Here is a link-
http://www.goodnature.co.nz/pests/#c315
DEFRA's incompetence has demonstrated the law of unintended consequences. They have been absolutely delinquent in this case and the only way things can change is for pressure from the top.
There is therefore an urgent need for as many people as possible to bring this to the attention at the highest level.
I am urging as many people as possible to raise this:-
Dr Therese Coffey MP
Permanent Under Secretary of State (DEFRA)
Emails can be sent to her via kevin.woodhouse@defra.gsi.gov.uk who is in charge of the Ministerial Unit at the Ministry -
I was asked to offer my opinion on this matter, but decided to watch from the sidelines for a while ... but ... it seems it has run far enough now with some odd interpretations being expressed
On the Approval Order are several similar design traps based on the original Fenn Mk 4 Vermin Trap. This was patented, yes, but this has long since expired. Also approved are the Solway and Springer traps, both almost identical and both named on the plate with the company name, as is the Fenn, neither of which were patented either, so therefore are really only copies of the original trap, but have been specifically approved by DEFRA.
Also on some of the recent approval orders is the 'clone' - since no-one has pushed through a case to suggest otherwise, this is open to interpretation. Some might say that a trap which 'looks' the same is a clone, others might suggest that it must 'perform' the same, but no-one really knows for sure, and the authorities like Natural England will not answer the question. The so-called Chinese imports offered by a whole host of suppliers, usually cheaply, are almost, but not quite, identical in looks. Who could possibly say whether they 'perform' the same? Nowhere is it listed that they must be of the same, quote ...' equal power, dimensions and quality' ... (at least anywhere I have read). Therefore are they clones, or copies, or fakes, or ... ??? Until someone is prosecuted for setting these traps then no-one can say. Selling them and buying them is perfectly within the law.
As for the statute, as I said in the first paragraph, only the Fenn, Solway and Springer are specifically named as being approved traps. Patents dont come into it at all.
Who will be the one to test the 'clone' theory in a court of law?? Good luck with that ...
Paragraph 3 of the Spring Traps Approval Order (England) 2012 states ......
(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1) a spring trap is equivalent in all relevant respects to a
spring trap of a type and make specified in the Schedule if it corresponds to the spring trap so
specified in construction, in materials, in impact force or momentum, and in all other respects
which are relevant to its effect or manner of operation as a trap.
In my view the key words here are "impact force" as it is in this area that the so-called clones are deficient as they have weaker springs -certainly the one I tried had.
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When something does not add up in my mind, I tend to re-read the posts in a thread to try and get it straight in my mind. I have done this on this thread and to be honest I am somewhat confused.
In post number 8 the OP stated "UntilI get my depatch mechanism I will be using these guys." http://www.pestcontr...ndon-foxes.html
That is fair enough.
Then in post #16
They sate "Unless I can find a mate with a .22, I will find a "reputable wildlife rescue group" and do a relocation." suggesting that they have not actually trapped any foxes yet.
Then in post #34
They state, "I got rid of the last pair by relocating in Jan and March and have been without any since the start of this month. Currently have one coming in occasionally as it has been triggering the PIR/cameras. The effort of relocating is worth it to be without them for 9-10 months."
There seems to be a pile of contradictions in the posts, I am sure the OP will gladly explain these?
TC
No answer as yet despite being on line this morning?
"Curiouser and curiouser said Sandra."TC
No mystery; it's just that I don't spend every minute on the forum, so apologies for the delay.
There is no contradiction. I got rid of the first in January and the second in March - both to Wimbledon Common. But doing it was a right PITA as on both occastions I had to get up early to do it in the dark to avoid issues -using a cover over the cage Plus there was the need to clean the truck as they got so scared they sh1t themselves.
So next time, it will be easier if I can get a more expedient final solution. When I do I will post a photo.
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Result...
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I have a couple of MkIV traps with "Keepa" stamped on them...
All counterfeits are illegal to use under the Pests Act 1954. They have not been approved under Spring Traps Approval Order (2012) and anyone using a non-approved trap can be prosecuted.
Unless they are classed as clones.......then they are perfectly legal...
Here is the link to the "Approved List", and if they are not on that list, then they are illegal....
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/13/pdfs/uksi_20120013_en.pdf
This is where the problem is.
If you read the bottom of the pdf
(Article 2 specifies approved traps, namely those listed in Column 1 of the Schedule and others which are equivalent in all relevant respects to those so listed.)
Or http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/13/article/2/made
you will find similar wording (any spring trap which is equivalent in all relevant respects to a spring trap of a type and make specified in any entry in Column 1 of the Schedule)
Clone traps are supposed to be of equal power, dimensions and quality, but we all know they are normally cheap chink shite.
You are right; they are not equivalent. They are not made under licence and hence do not have to conform to the patented Fenn design.
I tested a clone ( copy/counterfeit whatever you want to call it) and it was NOT equal in power or quality. It was only dimensionably similar but its springs had much less tension that the genuine Fenn. Also the clone didn't have the " brass on brass" in the trigger mechanism- hence less sensitive and slower. Its performance was substandard - so much so that several targett species ( squirrels) got out of the trap.
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I have a couple of MkIV traps with "Keepa" stamped on them...
All counterfeits are illegal to use under the Pests Act 1954. They have not been approved under Spring Traps Approval Order (2012) and anyone using a non-approved trap can be prosecuted.
Unless they are classed as clones.......then they are perfectly legal...
Here is the link to the "Approved List", and if they are not on that list, then they are illegal....
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/13/pdfs/uksi_20120013_en.pdf
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Theres someone on flea bay knocking Fenns out at 10 for £86 posted,theyre stamped up as Fenn,I assume youre copies werent stamped?
Couldn't see the 10 for £86
The regular sellers on Epay who supply genuine ones are moorlandspoultry, itsareal1, opuk2008, the-trap-man, 2013betsieboo and pestuk0118.
Cheers mate,they are on there 10 for £85.66 posted just checked atb Dave
If these are the ones at £86.55 for 10 then they are genuine Fenn Mark 4. Key points are:-
1. Big link chain that is but-welded.
2. Brass dog that is stamped with Patent Number. Also brass notch.
3 Square corners on the plate
4. Plate is stamped A Fenn MARK 4 MADE IN ENGLAND
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I have a couple of MkIV traps with "Keepa" stamped on them...
If you post a photo of one, I will let you know but, if they don't have a patent number on the brass dog then they are most probably imorted counterfeits. Another little pointer is the corners of the plate (tongue). If the corners are cut square, they are genuine Fenn. If the corners are slightly rounded, they are counterfeits.
All counterfeits are illegal to use under the Pests Act 1954. They have not been approved under Spring Traps Approval Order (2012) and anyone using a non-approved trap can be prosecuted.
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Double dip
in Gamekeeping, Conservation & Shoot Management
Posted · Edited by Tomdhu
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