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#1 Gimli

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 04:46 pm

Do you need a FAC to buy AAA cartridges for a 12 bore shotgun?

#2 stone-cold

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 04:53 pm

Do you need a FAC to buy AAA cartridges for a 12 bore shotgun?

no you dont,just your shotgun license

#3 Gimli

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 05:31 pm

I saw on the latest Deer Initiative statement about legislation regarding deer shooting on farmland, cultivated land etc, that if you have the permission of the farmer/landowner you may shoot muntjac with a shotgun using AAA ammunition if they are causing damage.

There are munties on both my permissions and the farmers have told me they consider them pests and am happy for me to shoot them if I get the opportunity.

Is that how all of you understand the legisation?

#4 stone-cold

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 05:34 pm

I saw on the latest Deer Initiative statement about legislation regarding deer shooting on farmland, cultivated land etc, that if you have the permission of the farmer/landowner you may shoot muntjac with a shotgun using AAA ammunition if they are causing damage.

There are munties on both my permissions and the farmers have told me they consider them pests and am happy for me to shoot them if I get the opportunity.

Is that how all of you understand the legisation?


yes,if it's your land and you can prove that deer are causing damage to saplings you can,with a minimum of AAA shot
but i think only you or a family member can actually shoot them

Edited by stone-cold, 05 May 2008 - 05:49 pm.


#5 SportingShooter

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:45 pm

The rules on shooting deer with a shotgun are clearly laid out and specific. The circumstances in England and Wales are solely for the prevention of serious damage to crops(which proof of previous damage will need to be to hand), the protection of forestry and other commercial operations.
You cannot just go and shoot them with a shotgun because the landowner sees them as pests, they have to do damage first or their is historical evidence of them doing damage.
Also, only the offending deer can be shot, you cannot shoot Roe if Muntjac are doing the damage.
They must be shot either with a Rifled Slug or AAA shot of no less than 350 grains. The only people authorised would be the landowner or his servant, this would mean someone who has permission to shoot there.
The only thing I am questioning is your justification for shooting them, you couldnt just think "I'll go and have a crack at the deer" just because you feel like it, they must be complicit first.
I have only done this myself once, a large farm I have permission on near me has a deer estate next door and a few escapees were causing damage, only having an SGC at the time, I duly went with 36gr of AAA and shot a Roe Doe, never saw them again, nor any damage.
Regards
SS

Edited by sportingshooter06, 05 May 2008 - 07:46 pm.


#6 Gimli

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:07 pm

Thanks for that. V clear. I've been shooting on these farms over about 6 months and have been told by the landowners that trees they've planted along edges of fields both to create windbreaks and in one case on the edge of an established orchard are being damaged by muntjac eating the bark and killing young trees. I've not attempted to shoot the deer but wanted to be clear in my mind about what I can do legally if asked to do so by the farmers.

#7 stone-cold

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:13 pm

Thanks for that. V clear. I've been shooting on these farms over about 6 months and have been told by the landowners that trees they've planted along edges of fields both to create windbreaks and in one case on the edge of an established orchard are being damaged by muntjac eating the bark and killing young trees. I've not attempted to shoot the deer but wanted to be clear in my mind about what I can do legally if asked to do so by the farmers.


be carefull mate,its got to be your land,i wont repeat whats already been said your better off finding the rules and regulations on the net and printing them so youve got it in black and white

#8 SportingShooter

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:40 pm

Here you are Gimli, have a look here,
http://www.shootingl...om/article7.htm
The land does not have to be yours, The "occupier" of land and their servants is meant to be interpreted accordind to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 which states that the servant of an occupier should be meant to include those who have right to hunt, shoot or fish there.
Regards
SS

#9 stone-cold

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:48 pm

Here you are Gimli, have a look here,
http://www.shootingl...om/article7.htm
The land does not have to be yours, The "occupier" of land and their servants is meant to be interpreted accordind to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 which states that the servant of an occupier should be meant to include those who have right to hunt, shoot or fish there.
Regards
SS


you might well be right about the land not having to be yours,its my understanding that it has to be,either way he's got to get the facts which you've given him via the link :thumbs:

#10 SportingShooter

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:06 pm

Here you are Gimli, have a look here,
http://www.shootingl...om/article7.htm
The land does not have to be yours, The "occupier" of land and their servants is meant to be interpreted accordind to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 which states that the servant of an occupier should be meant to include those who have right to hunt, shoot or fish there.
Regards
SS


you might well be right about the land not having to be yours,its my understanding that it has to be,either way he's got to get the facts which you've given him via the link http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
No problem Stone-cold, its just I did a lot of research into it before I did it. Not trying to argue and he has all the facts there now so he will be on the right side of the statute book.
Regards
SS

#11 dicehorn

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:56 pm

Thanks for that. V clear. I've been shooting on these farms over about 6 months and have been told by the landowners that trees they've planted along edges of fields both to create windbreaks and in one case on the edge of an established orchard are being damaged by muntjac eating the bark and killing young trees. I've not attempted to shoot the deer but wanted to be clear in my mind about what I can do legally if asked to do so by the farmers.



May be wrong here, but I was under the impression you could go ahead with shotgun provided the landowner had done everything possible to deter the deer from doing damage.

If he has planted trees without deer guards, then he has not done everything possible and by shooting the deer with shotgun you may be on the wrong side of the law.

Peter

#12 SportingShooter

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 11:05 pm

Dicehorn,
The law does not state whether precautions need to be taken, but it does state that the deer need to be complicit in damage or shown to be historically causing damage.
This would justify the use of a shotgun to shoot the deer, so if the deer have taken the tops out of the trees he is legal.
Regards
SS
P.S Where did you read that out of curiosity.

#13 Gimli

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:21 am

Thanks for all the advice and thanks particularly to Sporting Shooter for the very useful link. I've also been reading up past copies of the BASC magazine and they had a piece a couple of issues ago trying to clarify the "farmers' defence" clause regarding deer as pests..

I've not seen any other species of deer on either of my permissions but will get specific written permission from the farmers stating that they wish the deer to be shot as pests and stating the reasons they consider them pests. It seems that the law is open to interpretations but if you have written permission for shooting on the land and the farmer is prepared to confirm absolutely that the specific species of deer are causing damage then those shooters with permission can shoot muntjac.

But in the long-term I must look at getting a FAC to cover a centrefire .22 or above.

best wishes

#14 dicehorn

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:32 am

Dicehorn,
The law does not state whether precautions need to be taken, but it does state that the deer need to be complicit in damage or shown to be historically causing damage.
This would justify the use of a shotgun to shoot the deer, so if the deer have taken the tops out of the trees he is legal.
Regards
SS
P.S Where did you read that out of curiosity.


Hi SS

I did read it some while ago - but not on the web - having said that I may have interpreted wrongly.

Anyway personally, I really am against the use of shotguns on deer. The BDS and others recommend taking a shot with a shotgun no more than 15 - 20 yds. I think it would be exceedingly difficult to get within that range to shoot a deer unless it was caught against a fence or injured.

The problem is that there is always the tendency to take a much longer shot with the shotgun with the inherent possibilities of wounding and causing suffering which is not what we are up to.

Better for Gimli to get a friend with a .22 + centre fire to sort out the munties

Peter

#15 SportingShooter

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:26 am

I agree a Rifle is always going to be x100 better than a shotgun.
As I say I have only had to do it the once on a farm which I am solely allowed to shoot over, the farmer does not trust anyone else, the Roe Doe I shot was a chance shot(even though I was there with the intention of shooting deer with a shotgun), I rounded a corner while walking a hedgerow and the deer was standing around 25 yards away, it hadnt seen me, I was using AAA with a 3/4 choke and took a head shot, it dropped on the spot. I made me feel guilty to shoot a Doe with a shotgun but it had to be done.
If asked to do it now, I would apply for a Deer legal rifle and do it properly, now I have my FAC.
Regards
SS
P.S, Gimli if you happen to know someone with a deer rifle then I would ask him/her to go with you, there is nothing stopping you taking the shot with a friends rifle.


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