DSC 1

[Thwaites 0]

Not against the DSC, mainly because i get it free with my course im doing! So it cant do too much harm like!

[Hornyhunter 1]

Here I am again lads. I didnt run away but I do have a life other than trying trash DSC. leys start with your comment of being allowed on your own ground. You did say earlier that You didnt think some of the people doing part 1 had never shot before. But if we do it your way they will be allowed out without any idea of how to do things. A sure fire recipe for disaster. I ahve shooters that come to the estate that are plunbers, bin men, sewage tanker drivers. Not exactly the toffs most people talk about. They are happy to be accompanied as they are always learning something from someone who is always out there. They also feel it gives them a better chance to get something. Do you really believe that if you took us lads of the hills and let tom dick and harry just help themselves that the deer herds welfare and management over all those years would carry on.(dream on)

Now onto the costings again.If you are going on a 1 day test and paying £250 then more fool you. As I stated look at a wage bill for 2 days. I also meant somewhere todo inside tuition(not range)The money to go to DMQ, the price of your manual. Things you cant avoid and if your test papers are being downloaded and printed off by someone, then my sources tell me they probably wont be accepted as test papers. And finally what gives you the right to say that I (as a stalker) and all my stalking friends are being hard done by and that we are " hard pressed"

I can imagine that you will still have some comment against it in your tunnelvisioned world, but to all you stalkers out there contemplating part1 and 2. Go and do some homework. Ask those that have done it and see what their reactions are after doing it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised

[markbivvy 6]

dsc dmq call it what you like, might be good for some, but the way you put it over will put more folk of doing it as you seem like a nob.

your certainly no stalker.

[Hornyhunter 1]

It is unfortunate that you feel like that. I take it from your short kurt reply that you are struggling to justify yourself. Have you had a bad do with this that it has left you so bitter and tunnel visioned? And by the way none of that is meant in a derogeratory way. I had intended to come on today and do one more post and leave it at that. It doesnt help the cause to have a bitter arguement in public. All these forums are watched . So I'll say what I was going to say.

I personally do not want part 1/2 to become mandatory,BUT and it is a very bigBUT we have to accept that it will come at some point. I can understand where the forestry companies are coming from when they are asking for it. In this day of sueing they are covering their backs. As for the police forces that are quietly recommending that a new entrant to the stalking world would be advised to do 1 to get their certificate. It isnt law but in their eyes at least the person is doing a shooting test and safety test BEFORE he gets a potentialy dangerous firearm in his hands. There are some forces that are also putting on a two year ban on being allowed out with a rifle on their own. I do feel that having part1 and 2 and advanced stalkers certificates have taught me bits and pieces of the deer I do not deel with.I think that having DSC can only benefit the welfare of the deer. Something that should be our priority. In all walks of life there will be those for and those against. You have a thing about being forced to do this.You also have something to say about costs and where they go. That is your decision and I'm sorry you feel that way and dont seem open to any compromise. Unfortunately I cant forgive you for your last comment. After 40 years in the job. Having stalked numerous deer by myself and with the clients who came to the estates I am working on.had comments praising my work from many many clients who are now friends. And developing a reputation that brings them back to me. I relly do think I can call myself a stalker.

Sd with all that all I can say is for those still wondering what to do.Possibly think about doing it now while it is your choice rather than waking up one morning to be told you cannot have your stalking rifle unless you have it. If you are going to do it , please check what it is you are getting for your money. Yes there are sharks out there on paet 1 and 2 so do your homework first and goog luck with whatever you decide

[fireblade_rrw 20]

I if you stand back and analyse your statements on here, you will perhaps realise that they make you look full of your own self importance, summarily dismissing everyone elses view on the topic.

 

You do yourself no credit at all by being less than objective with your comments - in fact, I'm sure most people reading this will have a less than flattering opinion of you.

 

These forums are for help & and to freely express views, and with that, its usually quite polite to acknowledge other peoples opions - clearly, you seem unable to do that.

 

Lastly, you seem pretty certain that you know more than most regarding stalking etc - just remember there are lots of perople reading your comments, that have probably stalked/shot longer than you, are professional keepers, and in all likelihood, know a fair bit more than you.

I wont enter into a detailed discussion regarding the cost and appropriateness of DSC 1&2, mainly because you dont seem capable of entering into rational debate. Suggest you take a deep breath and remember as a newcomer to this site, so far, you havent exactly covered yourself in glory....

 

As my mum would say 'self praise is no praise'

 

Edit: ps - I just think you are downright rude !

Edited November 25, 2009 by fireblade_rrw

[bob.243 7,508]

I if you stand back and analyse your statements on here, you will perhaps realise that they make you look full of your own self importance, summarily dismissing everyone elses view on the topic.

 

You do yourself no credit at all by being less than objective with your comments - in fact, I'm sure most people reading this will have a less than flattering opinion of you.

 

These forums are for help & and to freely express views, and with that, its usually quite polite to acknowledge other peoples opions - clearly, you seem unable to do that.

 

Lastly, you seem pretty certain that you know more than most regarding stalking etc - just remember there are lots of perople reading your comments, that have probably stalked/shot longer than you, are professional keepers, and in all likelihood, know a fair bit more than you.

I wont enter into a detailed discussion regarding the cost and appropriateness of DSC 1&2, mainly because you dont seem capable of entering into rational debate. Suggest you take a deep breath and remember as a newcomer to this site, so far, you havent exactly covered yourself in glory....

 

As my mum would say 'self praise is no praise'

 

Edit: ps - I just think you are downright rude !

Here here.

[2434me 13]

This debate always gets bogged down by "WHO'S THE BEST STALKER "," I'm better than you ! " "They dont know sh1t",

ETC ETC ETC . We have read about individuals ripping off others (but no names or ££££££amounts ?) New stalkers moaning at older stalkers and the other way round as well . Some claim they learn a lot and others claim its a waste of time ??.I have even fallen into the argument trap myself at times .

 

If we could get rid of all the FOR and AGAINST bullshit and look at the bare bones of a Stalkers certificate .We might be able to come up with some idea how things would work best .

 

Everyone knows that Its not the most popular format with many different opinions on how it should be run as opposed to how it is run .But at the moment it is all we have .

 

The bottom line is that it is a lower level benchmark to ensure all stalkers have a basic understanding of stalking and all it entails .

 

NO-ONE ! Is going to cancel the need to take some sort of basic proficiency test however hard we SHOUT ! The police love it ! , Leaseholders love it ! and several others .So we will have to do a test in some form whether we like it or not .

 

££££££, There will always be a pound sign in front of anything we do nowadays ,that includes stalking ! Its a fact of life and we will have to get used to it .No-body is going to make it FREE. As usual some people can afford it and some cant !That too is life ,and there is nothing we can do about it .Uniform costs across country would help for instance .

 

Will it make him a better stalker ???

This is not a test to say "I AM BETTER THAN YOU ! " Its a test to say I am a better stalker than I was before I took the test . So it makes no odds whether he has been stalking for five minutes or 50 years !!! If it makes the individual a better stalker then it has done its job .

.....................................This is NOT a competition .................................................

 

The "instructors" who run the courses and the tests.

The ones I have met are not claiming to be "ACE" stalkers , but they are involved with the running of the courses to help out anyone who isn't quite sure on the answers to questions they might be struggling with .

( An example could be BENEFIT STAFF,

They know all the different claims you can make for max benefits ! BUT THEY ARE NOT ON BENEFITS THEMSELVES ! They still know how the system works though !)

 

 

In todays climate with shotguns and rifles, we need something to show we are taking a resonsible stand . If we dont stand together somehow ? Then we will end up shooting ourselves in the foot(and I meant that pun ! ) ,and loose whatever credibility we have .

[fireblade_rrw 20]

This debate always gets bogged down by "WHO'S THE BEST STALKER "," I'm better than you ! " "They dont know sh1t",

ETC ETC ETC . We have read about individuals ripping off others (but no names or ££££££amounts ?) New stalkers moaning at older stalkers and the other way round as well . Some claim they learn a lot and others claim its a waste of time ??.I have even fallen into the argument trap myself at times .

 

If we could get rid of all the FOR and AGAINST bullshit and look at the bare bones of a Stalkers certificate .We might be able to come up with some idea how things would work best .

 

Everyone knows that Its not the most popular format with many different opinions on how it should be run as opposed to how it is run .But at the moment it is all we have .

 

The bottom line is that it is a lower level benchmark to ensure all stalkers have a basic understanding of stalking and all it entails .

 

NO-ONE ! Is going to cancel the need to take some sort of basic proficiency test however hard we SHOUT ! The police love it ! , Leaseholders love it ! and several others .So we will have to do a test in some form whether we like it or not .

 

££££££, There will always be a pound sign in front of anything we do nowadays ,that includes stalking ! Its a fact of life and we will have to get used to it .No-body is going to make it FREE. As usual some people can afford it and some cant !That too is life ,and there is nothing we can do about it .Uniform costs across country would help for instance .

 

Will it make him a better stalker ???

This is not a test to say "I AM BETTER THAN YOU ! " Its a test to say I am a better stalker than I was before I took the test . So it makes no odds whether he has been stalking for five minutes or 50 years !!! If it makes the individual a better stalker then it has done its job .

.....................................This is NOT a competition .................................................

 

The "instructors" who run the courses and the tests.

The ones I have met are not claiming to be "ACE" stalkers , but they are involved with the running of the courses to help out anyone who isn't quite sure on the answers to questions they might be struggling with .

( An example could be BENEFIT STAFF,

They know all the different claims you can make for max benefits ! BUT THEY ARE NOT ON BENEFITS THEMSELVES ! They still know how the system works though !)

 

 

In todays climate with shotguns and rifles, we need something to show we are taking a resonsible stand . If we dont stand together somehow ? Then we will end up shooting ourselves in the foot(and I meant that pun ! ) ,and loose whatever credibility we have .

 

 

Good points - I dont think naming & shaming idividuals greed, would necessarily help. I personally think that we are all learning - me after 30 years of all sorts of shooting, am still learning, and thus it will always be ! For me the DSC is a dilemma - on one hand I think its a good idea to be able to demonstrate proficiency, but on the other hand, there are always those that will seek to exploit the finances associated with it.

 

What perhaps this site could think about is, a specific forum with some self help and downloadable sheets for folk that are new to this. For example, its quite difficult to get the 'stock' answer to some of the DSC questions - which are open to interpretation.

[2434me 13]

Your quite right Fireblade ,

Naming and shaming is not the way it should be . It was my mistake and a bad example .It wasnt meant to be a solution .

[Night Hunter 109]

Today i sent another link to this topic to the scottish parliment for them to view the poll and i made no apologies for some of the comments that have been posted as i think it shows a true picture of what people think about being forced to pay an extravagant amount of money for the right to carry out thier hobby/job whatever the case may be, i have no quams about sitting my dcs1 if it becomes law but i am dead against being ripped off to do so bearing in mind that it might not be dcs1 that is required and holders of dcs1 may have to sit another test and pay a registration fee to get on the approved stalker register,that is why i am holding off to find out what exactly becomes law and to see if the government will cap the fee to sit the test because as it stands it is plainly rediculous.

[nastybilly 55]

i could put a bet on that if it does become mandatory the price of doing it will sore....any takers?

[Night Hunter 109]

i could put a bet on that if it does become mandatory the price of doing it will sore....any takers?

 

you are probably correct mate thats why we have to fight this all the way,to get the best deal and to try to get the price capped if it has to become law with a universal working mans fee subsidised by government if necessary as it is the government who will be imposing this new law...After all they have plenty spare cash when it comes to mps expenses.......

Edited November 27, 2009 by Night Hunter

[nastybilly 55]

here here night hunter...im all for that..

[fireblade_rrw 20]

Well just passed the level one...

 

How did I find it? Studied on and off for 2 weeks, and sat it with 5 others + a re-sit. 2 failed, and the resit passed it.

 

Shooting bit I found easy, safety easy, scored 100% on written papers, and also got all the deer recognition pics right - although there were a four stinkers (Sika/Fallow does - and weird picture of a Red Stag)

 

Would I recommend it - certainly, because I learned a lot, but I still think its a rip-off ! (£250 in total for one day, and £140 of that went to BASC !)

 

As an aside, both the trainer and independant assessor, informed us that Strathclyde Police, have now made DSC level 1 mandatory for 1st applications for a FAC. Scottish Woodland & Tilhill, now insist on DSC Level 1(from April 2010) and the Forestry Commission, will no longer lease ground unless you have DSC Level 2 !

 

Whether you agree with this or not, it looks like its going to become mandatory.

[Mr_Logic 5]

Well just passed the level one...

 

How did I find it? Studied on and off for 2 weeks, and sat it with 5 others + a re-sit. 2 failed, and the resit passed it.

 

Shooting bit I found easy, safety easy, scored 100% on written papers, and also got all the deer recognition pics right - although there were a four stinkers (Sika/Fallow does - and weird picture of a Red Stag)

 

Would I recommend it - certainly, because I learned a lot, but I still think its a rip-off ! (£250 in total for one day, and £140 of that went to BASC !)

 

As an aside, both the trainer and independant assessor, informed us that Strathclyde Police, have now made DSC level 1 mandatory for 1st applications for a FAC. Scottish Woodland & Tilhill, now insist on DSC Level 1(from April 2010) and the Forestry Commission, will no longer lease ground unless you have DSC Level 2 !

 

Whether you agree with this or not, it looks like its going to become mandatory.

 

When you say mandatory for an FAC, I take it you mean for deer stalking, not just generally? They cannot just arbitrarily decide on DSC for everything else!