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The people against us don't need ammunition it is just there mission in life. There little hobby so to speak. I think its a population thing like a working strain of dog and show bred strain. Country life or proper country life is just being bred out of people so they have no clue. Its all fluffy bunny and cute foxes. Not a great deal can be done I think and in time it will all end. You can't blame people for giving them two fingers and drawing a line at some point

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On 15/06/2022 at 01:42, Timmy H said:

Thanks, it's meant sincerely. We are at a point where we may lose any pest control shooting in a few years due to the lead ban and possibly a renewed challenge on the GLs. I think we'll follow other European countries with a ban on live shooting with air rifles. When the first challenge to the GLs by Wild Justice happened I signed up for their newsletter to see what we were up against. Well I can tell you that they are far more up to date with the laws than most shooters, they made us look like uneducated idiots and actually they weren't far wrong, most shooters really don't have a clue about the rules or don't care, we still have posts that blatantly break the law and that gives ammo to Packham and his friends for the next legal challenge, sooner or later they will get all live shooting banned. When that happens, don't blame Packham and his cronies, blame the idiots that shoot illegally, boast about it and give WJ all they need to hound us. The ones that ignore the GLs or simply don't bother to follow the rules. When you can no longer take a few woodies off standing crop or take a magpie out for threatening a thrushes nest or to protect a sparrows nest, blame those who screwed it for everyone else. Personally I'd like to see some prosecutions with maximum penalties, currently unlimited fines and/or 6 months inside for those that break the rules. If we keep to the rules we may keep live shooting but I'm afraid too many don't care, don't understand or are too stupid to realise they are killing our sport. 

I think we are are all a bit sick of constantly obeying all the rules. We are hated by the antis and they will never stop. I agree about constant bragging though, and thats just a human condition. Ive planted about 22,000 Oaks in the last 2 years with a good success rate. Ive shot a few Jays but I think its balanced out. I think shooting people in this country on the hole are sensible and put quite a lot back. Vermin control is nothing like it used to be, the old keepers would kill vermin relentlessly and were good at it. Todays lads are just messing for fun most of the time. I live on a shooting estate and there are Magpies, crows, Buzzards and Jays everywhere. A few years ago that wouldnt of been tolerated. We hardly see thrushes anymore. I think it would take shooters many years to do as much damage to nature around the Midlands as HS2 has done, and all the houses being built on greenbelt. Theres the devil in plain sight. You should be wishing 6months inside on those b*****ds.

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11 hours ago, jeemes said:

I think we are are all a bit sick of constantly obeying all the rules. We are hated by the antis and they will never stop. I agree about constant bragging though, and thats just a human condition. Ive planted about 22,000 Oaks in the last 2 years with a good success rate. Ive shot a few Jays but I think its balanced out. I think shooting people in this country on the hole are sensible and put quite a lot back. Vermin control is nothing like it used to be, the old keepers would kill vermin relentlessly and were good at it. Todays lads are just messing for fun most of the time. I live on a shooting estate and there are Magpies, crows, Buzzards and Jays everywhere. A few years ago that wouldnt of been tolerated. We hardly see thrushes anymore. I think it would take shooters many years to do as much damage to nature around the Midlands as HS2 has done, and all the houses being built on greenbelt. Theres the devil in plain sight. You should be wishing 6months inside on those b*****ds.

Maybe that "messing about" has been part of the problem? When it comes to shooting anything live shouldn't we know the law and take it seriously? I agree things are out of balance but we've had the GLs for 30 years and too many shooters still don't have a clue. The challenge by Wild Justice was a response to that but also highlighted by someone shooting in woods near Packhams house without any good reason, just for fun. Loss of thrushes? Easy to explain that one, how many gardeners and farmers used slug pellets in vast quantities? They also kill snails which thrushes pick up and eat. Large numbers of vermin and predators around big estates? Could that be encouraged by the estimated 50 million gamebirds released in a year? How many of them end up as roadkill for scavengers or just a food supply? Whose fault is that? If you give any species a good food supply they will increase in number to the detriment of others. We shoot native species for thriving on a non native bird that we rear and then shoot just for fun. does that make sense? I agree with you about HS2 and building on green belt land but that is fairly recent in ecological terms, many of our bird species have been in decline for 50 years and more, all except the ones that we want in our gardens and therefore feed artificially.

The RSPB conduct vermin control on their sites, I bet they have a far better grasp of the legal situation than 90% of shooters in this country which unfortunately goes against us.

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2 hours ago, Timmy H said:

Maybe that "messing about" has been part of the problem? When it comes to shooting anything live shouldn't we know the law and take it seriously? I agree things are out of balance but we've had the GLs for 30 years and too many shooters still don't have a clue. The challenge by Wild Justice was a response to that but also highlighted by someone shooting in woods near Packhams house without any good reason, just for fun. Loss of thrushes? Easy to explain that one, how many gardeners and farmers used slug pellets in vast quantities? They also kill snails which thrushes pick up and eat. Large numbers of vermin and predators around big estates? Could that be encouraged by the estimated 50 million gamebirds released in a year? How many of them end up as roadkill for scavengers or just a food supply? Whose fault is that? If you give any species a good food supply they will increase in number to the detriment of others. We shoot native species for thriving on a non native bird that we rear and then shoot just for fun. does that make sense? I agree with you about HS2 and building on green belt land but that is fairly recent in ecological terms, many of our bird species have been in decline for 50 years and more, all except the ones that we want in our gardens and therefore feed artificially.

The RSPB conduct vermin control on their sites, I bet they have a far better grasp of the legal situation than 90% of shooters in this country which unfortunately goes against us.

When I said "messing about" I meant they are not killing vermin with a zeal like the old keepers did. People do shoot for fun, and who has the right to say they should not. Why did you start shooting? Was it to protect some other animal that you favour or was it for sport?. I mean why do you really want to shoot Pigeons off a standing crop or a Magpie threatening a Thrushes nest? Are you having sport doing that, are you having fun? I would be interested to hear what kind of shooting that it is you do? You say game shooting doesnt make sense or you question the sense in Game shooting for fun! Why else would you shoot game or any other animal for that matter?  Why are we denying fun?

Yes bird species have been in decline for 50years and urban areas have been expanding for 50years and all the associated traffic that goes with it, wouldnt you agree? You mention Pheasants being killed on the road, and yes they are along with a lot of other animals. Habitat disappearing and more cars to run them over. 

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10 hours ago, jeemes said:

When I said "messing about" I meant they are not killing vermin with a zeal like the old keepers did. People do shoot for fun, and who has the right to say they should not. Why did you start shooting? Was it to protect some other animal that you favour or was it for sport?. I mean why do you really want to shoot Pigeons off a standing crop or a Magpie threatening a Thrushes nest? Are you having sport doing that, are you having fun? I would be interested to hear what kind of shooting that it is you do? You say game shooting doesnt make sense or you question the sense in Game shooting for fun! Why else would you shoot game or any other animal for that matter?  Why are we denying fun?

Yes bird species have been in decline for 50years and urban areas have been expanding for 50years and all the associated traffic that goes with it, wouldnt you agree? You mention Pheasants being killed on the road, and yes they are along with a lot of other animals. Habitat disappearing and more cars to run them over. 

I started shooting in the 1960s with airguns, a garden gun and a .410, mainly woodies for the pot, starlings in the fruit trees and rabbits around the farm. Yes, corvids were better controlled and should be again, my point is that whatever we report should in print, appear totally legal and following the rules in place. I still shoot magpies regularly, my reason is to protect the sparrows which is a valid reason. I don't report my shooting any more, I would rather just do it and keep quiet. The only people who get that information are the landowners, but I've also refused to shoot on occasions, like when 1 owner wanted me to shoot rooks nesting close to the house he had just bought. He didn't want the noise! I lost that permission but he killed most of them himself and shot over a few boundaries which upset a neighbour who enjoys seeing the rooks picking grubs out of his grassland. He was reported, had zero knowledge of the rules and is now facing prosecution for wildlife crime offences. It could be very expensive, potentially unlimited fines and a custodial although that is unlikely. If he'd put a gas gun under the trees during the day before the nests were built the rooks would have gone elsewhere. He was told that but being a know it all townie he thought he knew best.

I would like to see woodies, magpies, crows and maybe jackdaws removed from the GLs and allowed to be controlled at any time but with a close season over the nesting period. I'd also like to see some control of the common avian predators which are currently completely protected.

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9 hours ago, Timmy H said:

I started shooting in the 1960s with airguns, a garden gun and a .410, mainly woodies for the pot, starlings in the fruit trees and rabbits around the farm. Yes, corvids were better controlled and should be again, my point is that whatever we report should in print, appear totally legal and following the rules in place. I still shoot magpies regularly, my reason is to protect the sparrows which is a valid reason. I don't report my shooting any more, I would rather just do it and keep quiet. The only people who get that information are the landowners, but I've also refused to shoot on occasions, like when 1 owner wanted me to shoot rooks nesting close to the house he had just bought. He didn't want the noise! I lost that permission but he killed most of them himself and shot over a few boundaries which upset a neighbour who enjoys seeing the rooks picking grubs out of his grassland. He was reported, had zero knowledge of the rules and is now facing prosecution for wildlife crime offences. It could be very expensive, potentially unlimited fines and a custodial although that is unlikely. If he'd put a gas gun under the trees during the day before the nests were built the rooks would have gone elsewhere. He was told that but being a know it all townie he thought he knew best.

I would like to see woodies, magpies, crows and maybe jackdaws removed from the GLs and allowed to be controlled at any time but with a close season over the nesting period. I'd also like to see some control of the common avian predators which are currently completely protected.

Yes I couldnt agree more mate. No need for all this broadcasting everything you shoot. Anybody who doesnt like the sound of Rooks shouldnt live in the countryside. Very good at controlling leather jackets.

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On 19/06/2022 at 20:01, jeemes said:

Yes I couldnt agree more mate. No need for all this broadcasting everything you shoot. Anybody who doesnt like the sound of Rooks shouldnt live in the countryside. Very good at controlling leather jackets.

Another example of a complete wanker from another forum. He shot a woodpigeon that was supposedly pecking flowers in an old ladies garden. What a bellend! Then posts it and gets congratulated by the other wankers who think blasting a woodie at short range is great hunting.

By the way, anyone ever seen woodies eating garden flowers?

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6 hours ago, Timmy H said:

Another example of a complete wanker from another forum. He shot a woodpigeon that was supposedly pecking flowers in an old ladies garden. What a bellend! Then posts it and gets congratulated by the other wankers who think blasting a woodie at short range is great hunting.

By the way, anyone ever seen woodies eating garden flowers?

I cant remeber seeing them eat flowers, but perhaps he just wanted to shoot it. You didnt say what type of gun, but generally short range is more likely to achieve a cleaner kill because the shot is easier to achieve. Is it the bragging you object to or just the shooting of it, I dont quite get it sorry.

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9 hours ago, jeemes said:

I cant remeber seeing them eat flowers, but perhaps he just wanted to shoot it. You didnt say what type of gun, but generally short range is more likely to achieve a cleaner kill because the shot is easier to achieve. Is it the bragging you object to or just the shooting of it, I dont quite get it sorry.

Airgun. I don't have a problem with anyone shooting a woodpigeon but shooting it because it might have pecked a flower is totally against the GLs. At least the mods on that forum have taken action and removed the post.

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8 minutes ago, Timmy H said:

Airgun. I don't have a problem with anyone shooting a woodpigeon but shooting it because it might have pecked a flower is totally against the GLs. At least the mods on that forum have taken action and removed the post.

Oh I see yes. Its a thing thats been happening now for years, lads putting everything they do on here or other forums. They used to call them reports and other people on the forums encourage it and give praise. So its all about massaging ego, and before long it becomes more about that than the actual doing of it. What is this thing that we need everyone to know what we are doing 24hrs a day? We are all guilty of it in some measure. You see people on facebook spending more time recording there holiday in Spain than they do enjoying it, in fact the enjoyment has become the recording of it. 

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Had 2 crows attack my car last week whilst parked on my drive ripped rear wiper blade rubber off and scratched the rear glass , magpies over the back yesterday morning attacking something else , time for the 510 to make an appearance 

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