Texas shooting

[WILF 44,272]

1 minute ago, Gene said:

Not guns of that capability though, and after doing a bit of research, it's not really a recent thing either, these events have been happening since the 60's.

Speaking of National Service and the military giving a sense of worth, ironically the most deadly mass shooting in the 60's was by a marine.

The 60s……..when the world started to change.

In history, that’s recent mate.

 

[Born Hunter 17,636]

44 minutes ago, Gene said:

At least do something about it, that's a start isn't it.

Is there a need for semi-automatic weapons at all if you're not in the military or the police?

Something is clearly wrong, Francie pointed out Switzerland, maybe look in to their regulations for a start?

The facts are though, without the aide of these weapons the vast majority of these nutters would have killed less people than they did.

I get that, I do. This shit ain't normal. But people like yourself have come the conclusion that it's fact that gun legislation and enforcement will stop this and that it is bans that is the goal, rather than actually stopping the killings. When that is simply not a conclusive fact. American politics is polarised as f**k recently, to the point that the discussions on everything are f***ing ridiculously childish. There's no meaningful discussion towards compromise. Politics is broken.

Legislation shouldn't be off the table. But when do we ever review the effectiveness of legislation that removes freedom, in this instance constitutionally enshrined freedom? Through the UKs history of terrorism recently legislation has continually be used to try to prevent it by banning the chemicals etc used. All the terrorists do is adapt! Did any of that legislation contribute to saving lives?

Banning guns in the US won't work any better than banning drugs. It's a deeply cultural thing. They might swallow a semi auto rifle ban (which wouldn't work), but the mentalists would just pick up the next legal tool and do as much damage, then you'd want pistols etc banned and at that point patriots would be putting 2A into practice. Frankly with the support of most of the country. To remove the guns you have to attack the culture, and cultural changes take 2,3,4 generations. So maybe in 50-100 years with aggressive cultural attack these shootings could be reduced.

Banning guns is simply not going to work in the US and relentlessly focussing on it prevents meaningful solutions.

[WILF 44,272]

25 minutes ago, Gene said:

It's not in the advancement of weapons though mate.

The question is, would these killers be as effective if they couldn't get their hands on semi-automatic weapons?

We shouldn’t worry about how effective they are, we should worry that they even exist.

jmho 

[Born Hunter 17,636]

7 hours ago, mackem said:

 

I wonder if there are as many cops (or anywhere near) in the US as school children/students? I very much doubt it but I honestly don't know. And that sort of illustrates my point on the state of the discussion in US politics over this.

It's a lovely little 'fact' that it's more dangerous to be a student than a cop, but does it hold up to scrutiny?

[Born Hunter 17,636]

1 minute ago, Gene said:

It could work, but things would have to get a hell of a lot more draconian over there and I'm not sure the public would want that.

 

You can't just ban guns on a 'could' or 'might'. I think people have to understand that banning the AR or 'assault rifles', though workable, isn't going to have the impact they want it to. There are millions already in circulation. Aggressive intelligence driven raids by the ATF/FBI to sterilise the US of these guns will be a level of tyranny that wouldn't just be opposed by the hard core NRA fraternity. It would be frowned on by all but the most left wing. It would likely be counter productive and make a lot of centrists embrace 2A. It's unthinkable imo.

A softer ban would do nothing to remove the millions already out there or remove the culture to keep them persisting in circulation.

And even if it was possible to remove this type of gun, sterilise the homeland of them, the lunatics will just pick up a high cap Benelli and some modified high cap Glocks and do just as much damage in the close quarters situations that is common for these sort of attacks. Then you have to legislate against types of weapons that most Americans don't want to give up and you are playing to the 'thin end of tyranny wedge' narrative...

[peterhunter86 8,627]

This is supposed to be the shooter 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

I haven’t read much or anything in the news about the way he accessed the school . 

im assuming he just walked right into it . 
were talking about an elementary school in a town of less than 20k people . 

how can that be counteracted or planned for ? 
 

Surely now , schools need to think about locking the doors 

[WILF 44,272]

14 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

I haven’t read much or anything in the news about the way he accessed the school . 

im assuming he just walked right into it . 
were talking about an elementary school in a town of less than 20k people . 

how can that be counteracted or planned for ? 
 

Surely now , schools need to think about locking the doors 

Brother, I moved from a place where fencing kids in and having security systems akin to a jail are normal in schools……I went to a place where they don’t have any of that, I mean it just doesn’t exist.

And why should it ?……it’s not normal !

I spoke to a few people when I first came here about it because I had been so conditioned to “it’s what you need to do to protect kids” and people just looked at me like I was mentally ill !…….and do you know what, they were right, I was mentally ill because thinking we need to lock kids away from the monsters instead of dealing with a perversion of society that gives birth to such monsters is completely arse about face !

The innocent shouldn’t be paying the price of this total f**k up we call the modern world be it with their freedom or their lives. 
 

We need to re-evaluate if this brave new tolerant world is really all people would have us believe it’s cracked up to be.

Edited May 25, 2022 by WILF

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

1 minute ago, Gene said:

Or at least ensure all schools have armed guards, l agree with Born, banning guns isn't the only solution but when they can't think of a simple solution like the one I've just just suggested then what does that tell you about those running the show? 

But again we’re back to the abnormal . 

children exposed to weapon presence at  an age of innocence and the idea of armed guards at every school . Ffs . Is that seriously what we’ve come to as a world ? 
 

it’s a tragic conundrum

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

1 minute ago, Gene said:

Who gives a f**k about the abnormal.

That's the harsh realities of life in the States, that there's a chance that your kids will be blown away at school by a nutter.

Wouldn't you as a parent feel safer knowing that they are protected by armed guards because I sure as hell would Stiff.

They can't just bury their heads in the sand if they are serious about preventing these tragedies.

It would have to be a soft posture approach 

like a faculty manager trained in response with a cached weapon 

I couldn’t have armed guards strolling around my kids in a school in the western world 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

2 minutes ago, Gene said:

I could, just ramp up school security that much that the guards wouldn't really have to stroll around the kids.

Plus that way you have the added benefit of them being a strong deterrent, it would make the next spotty teenager definitely think twice about carrying out such a cowardly act.

 

And what would be the preferred weapon of choice . 
 

the ar15 variant 

All a conundrum as I said ain’t it 

[Born Hunter 17,636]

5 minutes ago, Gene said:

I could, just ramp up school security that much that the guards wouldn't really have to stroll around the kids.

Plus that way you have the added benefit of them being a strong deterrent, it would make the next spotty teenager definitely think twice about carrying out such a cowardly act.

 

This is the problem. How do you know it would?

These acts are basically acts of suicide. Do you think a suicidal maniac with a broken head and an AR cares about facing armed resistance?

I agree the measure could reduce fatalities by shortening the response time.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

2 minutes ago, Gene said:

Fully automatic?

I think there's a place for assault rifles, be that for police and security mate.

And if it really is impossible for the bad guys to get their hands on them then that's a start.

If Trump can build a wall, then I'm sure Biden could make every school safe and secure if he really wanted to.

You have to think of it like this, that may make schools look like a prison from the outside but those kids inside wouldn't know the difference, I'd do anything to ensure they are safe.

I can’t have that mate . 

A soft posture , concealed presence of firearms in the hands of trained responders ( it’s Texas ffs) would be enough for me . 

where do you draw the line ? Machine gun nests and barbed wire . 

verified entry turnstiles and hardened exits would also do the entry a world of good . 
 But as stated If schools become inaccessible, then the likes of these would just slide to swimming pools , sports centres , shopping malls etc.
 

approved concealed carry’s for a greater determined trained and approved personnel would massage these stats downwards imho 

sadly the only thing that stops guns , it would seem , is bigger guns in the hands of good guys 

tragic 

 

 

 

[paul sr 688]

These kind of shootings did not happen in the fifties .A lot of the problems America is having is down to the breakup of the family unit ,drug abuse ,mental health issues , etc .                          

[WILF 44,272]

1 minute ago, Gene said:

I don't know, some decent perimeter fencing and like you said, turnstiles and arm guards at the entrances and exits?

The aim is to prevent these murderers from entering the premises, what you're suggesting still allows the would be assassin the opportunity to cause mass damage, remember with these weapons it only takes a matter of seconds to kill several people.

I think it's something that could be implemented almost immediately before trying to get to the root cause because that could take decades.

Is that again just dealing with the effects rather than the disease though ?