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Beardies and Kelpies


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6 hours ago, Neal said:

My 3/4 collie was a full brother of Enoch but from a later litter. Really lovely dog. Very easy going and completely indestructible. He was caught up on a strand of loose barbed wire once and simply tugged himself free without a mark on him, just a ball of fluff left on the wire as though left by a sheep. 

I bought him as an adult from an English Lecturer in Bedfordshire. Unfortunately, I didn't have him for very long as I split up with my girlfriend of the time and the cottage I was living in was  owned by her father. I couldn't find anywhere in Cumbria to live so ended up moving back to Hampshire. Jem stayed with my ex...really rubbed salt into the wound and I've always regretted letting him go. As I said, I didn't have him for long but I have so many great memories of things we got up to. Every time the Coniston fire brigade had a call out he'd hear the siren and let out a mournful howl like a coyote.

Funny you should say about the howl he used to do the same when went to someone's house his way of knocking haha

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Here we go. If this works there'll be two of her marking rabbits and one side view for a better idea of her build. She's difficult to photograph as she's one of those dogs which comes straight over as

that’s my half bred pup just under 12 months old 

The way I look at things,...the game has changed dramatically, these last few years, and will obviously change, even more so.. bearing in mind that I am an antique, and ancient in the extreme,...I can

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7 hours ago, Sammyballer said:

I had them and loved them , easy to train , easy to have around the kids and just nice to have around , dogs I own now are great but a day off walking and can be hard work and get bored ! Could possible be my last lurcher getting abit heated around here now few lads are going hard and it’s causing abit of noise 

Round by me ive not seen as many rabbits and hares around as now for about 10 years it's booming and also deer where you'd never see them before alot of the dicks who got dogs around 10/12 year ago and spoilt the place over hunting same spots causing spots to get hot have all gone now a nice little dog would be perfect now 

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Loved the small type lurcher x lurcher brilliant for a bit of lamp ferreting bushing working brambles etc 21 to about 23 to the shoulder max was the choice of dog when I was young round were I lived  .you just don't see them anymore God knows what went into them but collie whippet dominated the mix . Saw a good George kelly bitch back in the day but it blew up big style ended up suffering with epilepsy even took her on for about 12 months  as the previous owner said would I look after her when he went on holiday some bleeding holiday that turned out to be . He was the 2nd owner and the previous had run her to a standstill numerous times . Even a bit of light ferreting could trigger an episode and eventually I made the decision to PTS which was a shame as she was only about 6 . My other 2 lived till they was 14 and 15 whisky and blue  respectively and a half whippet collie named gyp passed at 11 always regret never breeding off them but the kelly dog was a no no off the bat breeding wise which was a shame . Now I struggle to find that type anymore were as 40+ years ago they were ten a penny numerous wise . I know slightly off topic but nice to think back and if only .

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12 hours ago, gasaxeman said:

Loved the small type lurcher x lurcher brilliant for a bit of lamp ferreting bushing working brambles etc 21 to about 23 to the shoulder max was the choice of dog when I was young round were I lived  .you just don't see them anymore God knows what went into them but collie whippet dominated the mix . Saw a good George kelly bitch back in the day but it blew up big style ended up suffering with epilepsy even took her on for about 12 months  as the previous owner said would I look after her when he went on holiday some bleeding holiday that turned out to be . He was the 2nd owner and the previous had run her to a standstill numerous times . Even a bit of light ferreting could trigger an episode and eventually I made the decision to PTS which was a shame as she was only about 6 . My other 2 lived till they was 14 and 15 whisky and blue  respectively and a half whippet collie named gyp passed at 11 always regret never breeding off them but the kelly dog was a no no off the bat breeding wise which was a shame . Now I struggle to find that type anymore were as 40+ years ago they were ten a penny numerous wise . I know slightly off topic but nice to think back and if only .

Although, I've only kept pure kelpies for the last twentyish years, if I was tempted back to "the dark side" of a dog with some sighthound blood, I'd favour whippet over greyhound. I know all the arguments for and against and perfectly understand why the vast majority favour the greyhound, but I simply prefer that stamp of small nip and tuck dog.

However, I also prefer a pastoral weighted cross...and I think I'd struggle to shift a litter of 3/4 kelpie 1/4 whippets!😆 Maybe a reverse 5/8 3/8 by mating Maudy to a 3/4 collie 1/4 whippet.🤔😆

Edited by Neal
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44 minutes ago, Neal said:

Although, I've only kept pure kelpies for the last twentyish years, if I was tempted back to "the dark side" of a dog with some sighthound blood, I'd favour whippet over greyhound. I know all the arguments for and against and perfectly understand why the vast majority favour the greyhound, but I simply prefer that stamp of small nip and tuck dog.

However, I also prefer a pastoral weighted cross...and I think I'd struggle to shift a litter of 3/4 kelpie 1/4 whippets!😆 Maybe a reverse 5/8 3/8 by mating Maudy to a 3/4 collie 1/4 whippet.🤔😆

Iv thought this , I had a litter plan in my head of a bitch of mine realising only I would want a pup , shifting the rest would be a pain 

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On the other hand...it seems as though any combination of dog breeds is advertized on the internet nowadays. Time was when, researching kelpie litters several years ago, You'd get one come up every few weeks but most were kelpie x collie. In the last two years I've seen two litters of kelpie x patterdale and several kelpie x labrador (one of which was labelled kelpadors!😲) as well as a few other types. Seems some people just don't bother to split their dogs up when one's in season and sell whatever comes up.

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19 minutes ago, Neal said:

On the other hand...it seems as though any combination of dog breeds is advertized on the internet nowadays. Time was when, researching kelpie litters several years ago, You'd get one come up every few weeks but most were kelpie x collie. In the last two years I've seen two litters of kelpie x patterdale and several kelpie x labrador (one of which was labelled kelpadors!😲) as well as a few other types. Seems some people just don't bother to split their dogs up when one's in season and sell whatever comes up.

Thats because it goes against the dogs rights don't you know😂

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I’ve had pure border collies, collie greyhounds half cross, beardie x border greyhound.

All the pure border collies lamped and ferreted well. However if you work land that is thin with game some border collies don’t have the drive to find a scent and would be happy just treating it as a casual stick finding walk.....some border collies do have the hunting up drive though.

The beardie border x greyhound....lamped and worked with ferrets well. However he lived to hunt regardless of there been little scent, he was always search, nose down head up. He ventured further than my border collies and border x greyhound. My border x greyhound, didn't have the drive to hunt for a scent.

The reason I went for spaniel in my lurcher was the drive to hunt they have. The springer x lurcher I had hunted as soon as she was let out of the car all day every day. Never ferreted or lamped her. She was the best hunting up dog I’ve worked and in my eyes a more intelligent dog than all my collie x lurchers, she showed her style from a very young age when she used to run freeze stalk etc, walk slowly and scan. She  would find stuff in areas that my others dogs would not even bother with.  I love pure border collies etc, but for daytime hunting up mooching the spaniel x lurcher was truly astonishing in comparison.

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There are so many variables its difficult to make a judgment.

I have owned and worked brilliant 1st cross collie greyhounds, bred from the right stock, I have seen and owned others that were rubbish in comparison.

Every Beardy first cross I've seen baring one  including my own were very headstrong and in the wrong way, one exception that was a great worker.

3/4 cross greyhound collie from borders I had and seen others brilliant on rabbits, fox etc on seriously rough ground, yet others were like pure greyhound in almost every way. Beardy never saw a great one, only ok at best.

What I'm happy to say is I think Scottish collies produce the worst type of dogs.

I have seen very useful lurchers or lurcher types bred from eastern European herding dogs border or beardy types and not the livestock guard dog types.  

But at the end of the day its very difficult to make broad statements because it all depends on who is training the dog.!

 

 

 

Edited by levigsp
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I like both the Beardy and the Border Collie lurcher types👏

These dogs (in their pure form) are incredibly similar, and it is only their preferred  style of herding, that makes them seem  different.. The inherent traits of the Border Creeper, and the noisy Huntaway Beardy, are all that separates these two. 

Obviously,.. many contemporary lurcher enthusiasts have strong opinions,.. mostly formed, via their experiences owning various examples, of the Black Country Sting...😉

In reality, such opinions are fairly biased, in as much as,.. other than the Greyhound side of this algebraic equation, the herding portion, is rarely from a genuine,. Working background....

Animals that have to work for their living on a daily basis, are soon culled if they have too many 'problems'....whereas, the commercial producer of lurchers, is far more forgiving,.. and obvious faults , either mental or physical are often overlooked.🙄

However,.. the facts are, this legacy is never going to die out, and subsequent litters in the future are sure to be an improvement ..well, I sincerely hope so....

Personally,..(and I could well be wrong🤔) I have usually tried to seek out working line pastoral types to use over my own bitches,...as to whether they were ever an improvement on other herding based running dog composites,. I cannot say..

Mind you, it was always great fun searching out, wild and wonderful, rare and mysterious, sheep herding canines, and believe me Brothers,....that incredible journey,.. was never dull....🙏

 

 

 

Edited by OldPhil
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15 minutes ago, OldPhil said:

I like both the Beardy and the Border Collie lurcher types👏

These dogs (in their pure form) are incredibly similar, and it is only their preferred  style of herding, that makes them seem  different.. The inherent traits of the Border Creeper, and the noisy Huntaway Beardy, are all that separates these two. 

Obviously,.. many contemporary lurcher enthusiasts have strong opinions,.. mostly formed, via their experiences owning various examples, of the Black Country Sting...😉

In reality, such opinions are fairly biased, in as much as,.. other than the Greyhound side of this algebraic equation, the herding portion, is rarely from a genuine,. Working background....

Animals that have to work for their living on a daily basis, are soon culled if they have too many 'problems'....whereas, the commercial producer of lurchers, is far more forgiving,.. and obvious faults , either mental or physical are often overlooked.🙄

However,.. the facts are, this legacy is never going to die out, and subsequent litters in the future are sure to be an improvement ..well, I sincerely hope so....

Personally,..(and I could well be wrong🤔) I have usually tried to seek out working line pastoral types to use over my own bitches,...as to whether they were ever an improvement on other herding based running dog composites,. I cannot say..

Mind you, it was always great fun searching out, wild and wonderful, rare and mysterious, sheep herding canines, and believe me Brothers,....that incredible journey,.. was never dull....🙏

 

Well said, I base my opinions on working collie types, I had not time for the others.

Strangely I had a pair similar to those in your photo when I was a young man and they caught more woman then rabbits.

 

 

Edited by levigsp
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12 minutes ago, levigsp said:

Well said, I base my opinions on working collie types, I had not time for the others.

Strangely I had a pair similar to those in your photo when I was a young man and they caught more woman then rabbits.

 

 

For the borrowing like 👍 

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Well said OldPhil.👍

One of the biggest drawbacks for any collie type is the negative publicity engendered when you meet one with traits you may dislike and it can effect (is it effect or affect...I can never remember🤔) every subsequent one you encounter. I was lucky in that I liked the beardieish elements of the first three lurchers I had and the borderish elements of three (two of which are the same dogs as they had both).

Unfortunately, there were also some beardie and border elements I didn't like as much.

While the same is true of the seven kelpie blooded dogs I've had, I've still found that I've generally gelled with them better. As W.Katchum wisely said above, I'm more ready to accept their idiosyncrasies.

Incidentally Old Phil, who's this "Black Country Sting"? I thought Gordon Sumner came from the north east.😆

Edited by Neal
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