Beardies and Kelpies

[Black neck 15,161]

59 minutes ago, Neal said:

Well said OldPhil.

One of the biggest drawbacks for any collie type is the negative publicity engendered when you meet one with traits you may dislike and it can effect (is it effect or affect...I can never remember) every subsequent one you encounter. I was lucky in that I liked the beardieish elements of the first three lurchers I had and the borderish elements of three (two of which are the same dogs as they had both).

Unfortunately, there were also some beardie and border elements I didn't like as much.

While the same is true of the seven kelpie blooded dogs I've had, I've still found that I've generally gelled with them better. As W.Katchum wisely said above, I'm more ready to accept their idiosyncrasies.

Incidentally Old Phil, who's this "Black Country Sting"? I thought Gordon Sumner came from the north east.

A drop of beardie in your border stops them chasing cars I'm told 

[gasaxeman 165]

1 hour ago, Black neck said:

A drop of beardie in your border stops them chasing cars I'm told 

Funny you should say that I was delivering and a woman at a roundabout had a pure border so it seems nearly went under wheels of the wagon I was driving not to mention a few cars as well  . 

[Black neck 15,161]

3 minutes ago, gasaxeman said:

Funny you should say that I was delivering and a woman at a roundabout had a pure border so it seems nearly went under wheels of the wagon I was driving not to mention a few cars as well  . 

2 much eye ? 

[poxon 5,555]

If I was after a lurcher an was after a herding bred type any of the cross would do me because the straight crosses have become like hens teeth now days to get anything half decent Id make do with what I had I’d not look for negatives in the cross I’d look for positives in the cross that other lurcher types don’t have an go from there. I do like herding xs but  if your after a good clever pot hunting dog an vermin dog that will have a crack at every job a lurcher is expected to do a drop of terrier blood x herding blood is were the real magic seems to happen while retaining good traits from both bloods if the original dogs used were good 

[bird 9,587]

7 hours ago, poxon said:

If I was after a lurcher an was after a herding bred type any of the cross would do me because the straight crosses have become like hens teeth now days to get anything half decent Id make do with what I had I’d not look for negatives in the cross I’d look for positives in the cross that other lurcher types don’t have an go from there. I do like herding xs but  if your after a good clever pot hunting dog an vermin dog that will have a crack at every job a lurcher is expected to do a drop of terrier blood x herding blood is were the real magic seems to happen while retaining good traits from both bloods if the original dogs used were good 

fair point  with herding type xs , was just thinking , why not try a dutch shepherd , ive seen a great bitch of that breeding, real good bitch, good brain, drive, stamina, not bad pace, most herders  can get over ground quick, put drop sighthound  in the mix , plenty of speed to catch rabbits deff, and enough grit to handle any fox.  the dutch or the mal , would lot more guts in them than any collie, kelpie, beadie,  you get good feet/ coat. i know most people wouldnt try these types , because there not  conventional) enough , lot of people are scared to think outside the box? i know from own experience  with my 1x gsd x grey  Buck, he been my best alround type lurcher ive had in 30 odd years, he took every think i slipped him on  ticked all the boxes fro me deff. just a thought  why we taking about herding xs ?

[forest of dean redneck 11,183]

Just skimming the thread , and musing I wonder what a tall pup out of the Kelpie x patterdale would been like as a rabbit and squirrel dog ? 
I often regret not trying a pure collie or reverse 3/4 bred for mooching .

[gnipper 5,944]

56 minutes ago, forest of dean redneck said:

Just skimming the thread , and musing I wonder what a tall pup out of the Kelpie x patterdale would been like as a rabbit and squirrel dog ? 
I often regret not trying a pure collie or reverse 3/4 bred for mooching .

I've seen a lad who has a collie x pat and it has been a great dog that did everything for him and its a shame it never successfully lined a greyhound. 

[Neal 1,784]

3 hours ago, bird said:

fair point  with herding type xs , was just thinking , why not try a dutch shepherd , ive seen a great bitch of that breeding, real good bitch, good brain, drive, stamina, not bad pace, most herders  can get over ground quick, put drop sighthound  in the mix , plenty of speed to catch rabbits deff, and enough grit to handle any fox.  the dutch or the mal , would lot more guts in them than any collie, kelpie, beadie,  you get good feet/ coat. i know most people wouldnt try these types , because there not  conventional) enough , lot of people are scared to think outside the box? i know from own experience  with my 1x gsd x grey  Buck, he been my best alround type lurcher ive had in 30 odd years, he took every think i slipped him on  ticked all the boxes fro me deff. just a thought  why we taking about herding xs ?

The main thing that's always put me off Dutch herders and the like was meeting one in my local wood. I was going to collect my kids from school and the school borders my local wood. The chap and I were chatting about our dogs (his was a Malinois and I had two or three kelpies with me). He was bragging about how amazingly well behaved his dog was...then we got to the side gate to the school. I tied mine up where they waited patiently while his shot into the school grounds and ran around in circles like a nutter, refusing to come back.

Re the kelpie x Patterdales, I remember an article in the Countryman's Weekly in the mid 90s about the benefits of collies as hunting dogs and it mentioned a collie x bedlington.

[bird 9,587]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

The main thing that's always put me off Dutch herders and the like was meeting one in my local wood. I was going to collect my kids from school and the school borders my local wood. The chap and I were chatting about our dogs (his was a Malinois and I had two or three kelpies with me). He was bragging about how amazingly well behaved his dog was...then we got to the side gate to the school. I tied mine up where they waited patiently while his shot into the school grounds and ran around in circles like a nutter, refusing to come back.

Re the kelpie x Patterdales, I remember an article in the Countryman's Weekly in the mid 90s about the benefits of collies as hunting dogs and it mentioned a collie x bedlington.

yeh neal ,but that dog, was just badly  trained, that could aply to any breed of dog. Dont get wrong a border collie one of easiest breeds of dog to train for general obedience   , prob easier than a kelpie. as you know i had kelpiex collie x grey bitch few years back, now she was dead easy to train, do anything for me, but only me nobody else. her temp was evil though. she rip up any dog she met, i dont mean growl scuffle , she try to kill the other dog, she was 23 in fawn , very strong animal, she was nightmare to take out, she have dogs, and any person who got to close to me, she went for my wife and son in the end, i got her shot, i wouldnt trust her in the vets, i used muzzle her , but she hated it. thats why ive always said on here and other sites, when you get a dog like Buck, who big daft thing, it makes you  realize  what great temp he as, once you owned  nasty twat like that bitch  was. i still say a dutch herder x grey or x lurcher , make great hunting dog, as long as you put proper time in, but you should with any dog, worker or pet  what ever the breed.?

[gnipper 5,944]

2 hours ago, W. Katchum said:

 

Be not far off the border collie x lakies I bred. They where smashing little alrounders, if a litter like that turned up again I reckon I’d be tempted

This lads has worked with ferrets, hawks, guns, terriers and on the lamp etc its been a proper well trained all-rounder.

[Night Walker 591]

10 hours ago, W. Katchum said:

 

Be not far off the border collie x lakies I bred. They where smashing little alrounders, if a litter like that turned up again I reckon I’d be tempted

 

10 hours ago, W. Katchum said:

 

Be not far off the border collie x lakies I bred. They where smashing little alrounders, if a litter like that turned up again I reckon I’d be tempted

Always liked the sound of that type of cross would be nice to hear a bit more about them and the way they worked, for a mouching ferreting type of dog I’d imagine them to be very handy

[Neal 1,784]

Right, I've made my mind up!

I'm mating Maud to a beddie/whippet x lab!

[Neal 1,784]

9 hours ago, bird said:

yeh neal ,but that dog, was just badly  trained, that could aply to any breed of dog. Dont get wrong a border collie one of easiest breeds of dog to train for general obedience   , prob easier than a kelpie. as you know i had kelpiex collie x grey bitch few years back, now she was dead easy to train, do anything for me, but only me nobody else. her temp was evil though. she rip up any dog she met, i dont mean growl scuffle , she try to kill the other dog, she was 23 in fawn , very strong animal, she was nightmare to take out, she have dogs, and any person who got to close to me, she went for my wife and son in the end, i got her shot, i wouldnt trust her in the vets, i used muzzle her , but she hated it. thats why ive always said on here and other sites, when you get a dog like Buck, who big daft thing, it makes you  realize  what great temp he as, once you owned  nasty twat like that bitch  was. i still say a dutch herder x grey or x lurcher , make great hunting dog, as long as you put proper time in, but you should with any dog, worker or pet  what ever the breed.?

Don't get me wrong bird, I agree with you that Dutch herders (and the other similar dogs) are great working dogs. It's simply that I'd find them too "worky" for me.

I prefer a laid back, easy going, rastafarian type dog. I know that sounds ridiculous coming from someone who uses kelpies, but that's why I always do so much research before I get each one. Not that it always works. My best ones have been keen to work as soon as we're in the woods, fields and moors but switch off the rest of the time.

Your Buck sounds more like my kelpie/collie x greyhound than the bitch you mention. I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, but when was she bred? I'm just wondering if her temperament was a result of the greyhound i.e. I think ours had the same sire (Ruby's brother). Mine (Moss) was out of a racing bitch called Tell Nobody (Twiggy) and Dave mentioned that she had a particularly easy going temperament.

[shaaark 10,112]

4 hours ago, Neal said:

 

I prefer a laid back, easy going, rastafarian type dog. I know that sounds ridiculous coming from someone who uses kelpies, but that's why I always do so much research before I get each one. Not that it always works. My best ones have been keen to work as soon as we're in the woods, fields and moors but switch off the rest of the time.

 

Seen, ras. 

[levigsp 938]

Makes me smile people talking about the various cross mongrels, the reason is its all been done before, no matter what crosses we may think of, its been done either deliberate or accident. 

I've seen everything from Pink Puddle whippets to Great Dane Greyhound lurchers, the latter was one of the best big game done I seen, sadly a tale for private ears. so here is a photo I scanned of one of the talked about Xs, notice one merle. Sorry could only find pup photo, the red ended up pig tailed.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by levigsp