WILF 44,298 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 The key point is, would they be able to knit enough balaclavas for a whole EU army ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 20,409 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: So the only point in EU nations having a military at all is to appease the US in NATO? I didn't say NATO would be split, simply that if the EU nations fully or at least significantly integrated then they would not be dependant on NATO for their defence, they could act unilaterally and independently but still be in NATO. They have all of the might needed to do that if they had the will to integrate. Look at the combined assets, manpower and industrial base of EU nations, it's very significant and could very easily replace NATO for their own purposes. You're reading things into my post I didn't say. I didn't say YOU said NATO would split, I'm inferring that their are politicians in the EU that would like to leave NATO and replace it with a EU Army. In MY opinion, a EU Army, outside of NATO, and without US/UK support, would have neither the military capability or political will to oppose a Russian invasion of a EU member country. They have been extremely reluctant to meet their financial obligations to NATO up to now. Of course the invasion of Ukraine may change that, but who knows. Also, would a France, in a EU army, but outside NATO, be willing to press the nuclear button in the event of a Russian invasion of, say, Latvia ? I personally doubt it. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel cain 42,875 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 No body is going to nuke anyone...that's a given....this is all about money/land/rinsing assets...nothing more,nothing less 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,638 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, chartpolski said: Also, would a France, in a EU army, but outside NATO, be willing to press the nuclear button in the event of a Russian invasion of, say, Latvia ? I personally doubt it. Would the US? The same questions over nuclear deterrence in an alliance remain. I think European countries would be more willing to act, if they had the command structure, given it's on their continent than the US would. 16 minutes ago, chartpolski said: You're reading things into my post I didn't say. I didn't say YOU said NATO would split, I'm inferring that their are politicians in the EU that would like to leave NATO and replace it with a EU Army. In MY opinion, a EU Army, outside of NATO, and without US/UK support, would have neither the military capability or political will to oppose a Russian invasion of a EU member country. I genuinely don't know what you are basing that on other than a history of negativity towards European defence spending. The EU member states have considerable and full spectrum military capability with a fantastic industrial base to sustain it. I agree they lack will to integrate, which is what provoked my original question. I wonder how long that will last in the face of current events. You don't believe it but they have all they need to make a very capable NATO-esque force for defence of the continent. If they integrated then they would double that effectiveness through the efficiencies of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Rather than EU leaders looking to NATO exercises and realising the benefits of their dependence on it I think they will be looking to them and thinking it's time they weren't dependent. Edited March 15, 2022 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,387 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Ukraine: Briton who travelled to warzone to join military fight against Russia leaves over 'suicide mission' fears NEWS.SKY.COM Ben Spann tells Sky News he did not tell his wife or teenage son that he was going to Ukraine to... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 25,258 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 38 minutes ago, kanny said: Ukraine: Briton who travelled to warzone to join military fight against Russia leaves over 'suicide mission' fears NEWS.SKY.COM Ben Spann tells Sky News he did not tell his wife or teenage son that he was going to Ukraine to... That’s what can happen after a weekend on the sniff and completing COD5 in one sitting with no sleep 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,387 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Francie 6,362 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) What's you reckon is the ambassador lying or telling the truth? Was ukraines gov bombing there own people in doesn't the last eight years? Edited March 15, 2022 by Francie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 20,409 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 12 minutes ago, Francie said: What's you reckon is the ambassador lying or telling the truth? Was ukraines gov bombing there own people in doesn't the last eight years? The Ukraine government has been fighting Russian backed separatists for years, don't know if that's the same as bombing their own people. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,261 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 23,783 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, sandymere said: Admit it Sandy, you seethe with impotent rage every time you see Mr Brexit himself, deserves a knighthood at the very least does Sir Nigel 3 2 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 20,863 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, sandymere said: How many Ukrainians are you taking in Sandy? 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,261 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 Brexit Party voted against plans to tackle Russian propaganda WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM "Hiding in plain sight for years", LBC presenter James O'Brien tweeted as the 2019 vote does the rounds on social... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kanny 19,387 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 GB news is OK, best of that bunch imo , at least they are willing to explore different narratives. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 23,783 Posted March 15, 2022 Report Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, sandymere said: Brexit Party voted against plans to tackle Russian propaganda WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM "Hiding in plain sight for years", LBC presenter James O'Brien tweeted as the 2019 vote does the rounds on social... I take your Sir Nigel and raise you an abbotpotamus Diane Abbott questions if Russia is really the aggressor, with 130,000 troops on Ukraine border WWW.GBNEWS.UK The former shadow home secretary backed the Russian narrative and said that Nato... 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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