Surprised and disappointed at this site.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

“When folk like you do these things”

Hang on a min ...... you saw something that showed silhouettes of British soldiers and some were weeding turbans ...... so you labelled it as virtue signalling and nonsense. Initially I said I had seen it before (which I have) and in this case hampton court palace had its turn to do a large scale instillation to celebrate its part in the war etc. The silhouettes were of the soldiers encamped there, some of which were Indian Sikhs and so some of the silhouettes had turbans on. It is an accurate depiction of what you would have seen if you turned up there at the victory marches post ww1. 
 

Would it be better if they had that exhibition and left the Sikhs out ? I bet if you went back and asked that of the white British troops there at the time they would say f**k no! 
 

I don’t get the bit about making up for non whites lack of achievement ? This is about war ....... and about loss of life and sacrifice. It’s not about anything else ? And pretty much the same number of Indians served Britain during ww2 as white brits did ? If it hadn’t been for them (and lots of others) we wouldn’t have won the war. They served in every arena of conflict that we did and we were very very happy to have them at the time. So what’s the issue with respectfully remembering them at rememberance ? Which is after all a ceremony to remember those of the British army who died for us.

All I’m seeing is that you don’t like them being remembered by us because they are non white. Which when you think of the context is a little bit ironic. 

[WILF 44,186]

@SheepChaser

Something struck me in your post that I seem to hear all the time the last few years (only the last few years mind you) and that the “There were as many blacks/Indians/Arabs etc etc served in the army as white British blokes and we would never have got by without them blah blah”……and my reply is always the same, “Where are they then ?” 
 

Take the greatest invasion in the history of man, D day……now if all this is to be believed all the historical photos would show tens of thousands of them storming ashore with the white blokes , like Black Friday, but with white blokes ! 
 

I never see a single darky in any of these pictures unless it’s the odd one or two carting some stuff around, I can’t remember seeing any in any of the beach landing pictures or footage I have ever seen ?

What were they?….experts at camouflage or something ?

No mate, the fact is, they wasn’t there in the numbers certain people want us to believe……they wasn’t needed or they wasn’t rated or both ! 
 

If you can show me a few pictures of these people steaming ashore in their thousands with the other lads from Canada and America and Great Britain then I will happily say “sorry squire” 

Edited November 15, 2021 by WILF

[SheepChaser 8,082]

8 minutes ago, WILF said:

@SheepChaser

Something struck me in your post that I seem to hear all the time the last few years (only the last few years mind you) and that the “There were as many blacks/Indians/Arabs etc etc served in the army as white British blokes and we would never have got by without them blah blah”……and my reply is always the same, “Where are they then ?” 
 

Take the greatest invasion in the history of man, D day……now if all this is to be believed all the historical photos would show tens of thousands of them storming ashore with the white blokes , like Black Friday, but with white blokes ! 
 

I never see a single darky in any of these pictures unless it’s the odd one or two carting some stuff around, I can’t remember seeing any in any of the beach landing pictures or footage I have ever seen ?

What were they?….experts at camouflage or something ?

No mate, the fact is, they wasn’t there in the numbers certain people want us to believe……they wasn’t needed or they wasn’t rated or both ! 
 

If you can show me a few pictures of these people steaming ashore in their thousands with the other lads from Canada and America and Great Britain then I will happily say “sorry squire” 

Ah right so I forgot that you were an expert military historian and all of the records of war and soldiers like my grandfather were liars right ?

The Indian army sent 1.5 million professional soldiers into combat in WW1, 130,000 of them came all the way to Europe to fight the Germans in the trenches. It was actually an id Ian battalion which stopped the initial German offensive at Ypres in august 1914.

There are 1000s of photos of them in ww1 in the trenches etx. But yea you’re right, in popular history you never see them. I won’t answer why, because I expect you will have a melt down.

Saying something like “they wasn’t needed or wanted” - now you’re entering the proper dick head territory. I expect the men who served alongside them would be pretty disgusted at stuff like that and perhaps may suggest you are rooting for the wrong side.

Whats funny is you are talking about D day as if it’s the only fight don’t suppose you have ever heard of the battles of kohima and Imphal? About 200,000 troops fighting it out at the same time as D day. In total they killed about 53,000 Japanese soldiers and lost something like 12,500 British soldiers killed and about 5000 wounded. It was what held up the Japanese and made them not part of D day and European operations. But you will never have heard of it so it didn’t happen right  

[WILF 44,186]

10 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Ah right so I forgot that you were an expert military historian and all of the records of war and soldiers like my grandfather were liars right ?

I’m not an expert anything, I simply asked “where are they?” 

Quote

The Indian army sent 1.5 million professional soldiers into combat in WW1, 130,000 of them came all the way to Europe to fight the Germans in the trenches. It was actually an id Ian battalion which stopped the initial German offensive at Ypres in august 1914.

So, 130,000 is hardly propping us up in terms of the great war is it ?……I mean given that we had millions of men there they ain’t exactly half our strength are they ?

Quote

 

There are 1000s of photos of them in ww1 in the trenches etx. But yea you’re right, in popular history you never see them. I won’t answer why, because I expect you will have a melt down.

Don’t tell me, every war reporter ever is a right wing racist ! Lol  

Quote

Saying something like “they wasn’t needed or wanted” - now you’re entering the proper dick head territory. I expect the men who served alongside them would be pretty disgusted at stuff like that and perhaps may suggest you are rooting for the wrong side.

Whats funny is you are talking about D day as if it’s the only fight don’t suppose you have ever heard of the battles of kohima and Imphal? About 200,000 troops fighting it out at the same time as D day. In total they killed about 53,000 Japanese soldiers and lost something like 12,500 British soldiers killed and about 5000 wounded. It was what held up the Japanese and made them not part of D day and European operations. But you will never have heard of it so it didn’t happen right  

And yet, despite these millions of Indians they still had to send my old man regiment (and plenty more like it) to Burma after getting torn to bits at Dunkirk……go figure huh ! 
But no, we owe them everything ! Lol

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by WILF

[SheepChaser 8,082]

35 minutes ago, WILF said:

I’m not an expert anything, I simply asked “where are they?” 

So, 130,000 is hardly propping us up in terms of the great war is it ?……I mean given that we had millions of men there they ain’t exactly half our strength are they ?

Don’t tell me, every war reporter ever is a right wing racist ! Lol  

And yet, despite these millions of Indians they still had to send my old man regiment (and plenty more like it) to Burma after getting torn to bits at Dunkirk……go figure huh ! 
But no, we owe them everything ! Lol

 

The Indian army sent 1.5 million professional soldiers to WW1, not conscripts but full time employed professionals. 700,000 of them went to Mesopotamia to fight the Turks for us, 130,000 came to Europe right at the start and stopped the Germans while we were busy training troops. They made a huge part of the British expeditionary force. I have yet to meet any soldier who served in ww2 (obviously never met any from ww1) who held anything like the ideas or thoughts you do about those troops and Im Fairly certain most would be disgusted by your attitude and words. Truly and deeply disgusted. 
 

I never said anyone was a right wing racist but the facts are there - we kept a lot of records, we know how many troops served and died from each country. You can stamp up and down as much as you like but India fielded almost the same number of troops in ww2 as Britain did. And without them we would have lost. And vice versa. Why they aren’t as well represented in photos and films ...... who knows. I can’t answer that one but it’s just how it’s always gone. 

The biggest problem with debating you is that you are close minded and won’t ever listen to anyone else’s view point. It isn’t a debate it’s just you saying your bit and telling everyone else they are wrong with a bit of a mocking tone. If you are that colour obsessed that you cannot even stand to see men who fought and died for your country remembered...... then I don’t think you will ever listen to anyone else. 
 

Aye we sent British troops to Burma, I know plenty about that. But then they sent Indian troops to the western front. The battle of Monte casino in particular saw huge numbers of I’d Indians fighting and dying. One in particular was awarded the VC at 19 years of age for taking out several machine gun nests etc. 
 

Let’s just face it wilf you don’t like coloured people and it upsets you tht we remember how they fought alongside us and for us. Pretty shitty really mate. 
 

Edited to add - no one ever said we owe them everything so stop being dramatic I just don’t have an issue with them being remembered for the part they played. Which was a handful of silhouettes with turbans on. And if that upsets you  that much you have some major issues. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by SheepChaser

[WILF 44,186]

26 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

The Indian army sent 1.5 million professional soldiers to WW1, not conscripts but full time employed professionals. 700,000 of them went to Mesopotamia to fight the Turks for us, 130,000 came to Europe right at the start and stopped the Germans while we were busy training troops. They made a huge part of the British expeditionary force. I have yet to meet any soldier who served in ww2 (obviously never met any from ww1) who held anything like the ideas or thoughts you do about those troops and Im Fairly certain most would be disgusted by your attitude and words. Truly and deeply disgusted. 
 

I never said anyone was a right wing racist but the facts are there - we kept a lot of records, we know how many troops served and died from each country. You can stamp up and down as much as you like but India fielded almost the same number of troops in ww2 as Britain did. And without them we would have lost. And vice versa. Why they aren’t as well represented in photos and films ...... who knows. I can’t answer that one but it’s just how it’s always gone. 

The biggest problem with debating you is that you are close minded and won’t ever listen to anyone else’s view point. It isn’t a debate it’s just you saying your bit and telling everyone else they are wrong with a bit of a mocking tone. If you are that colour obsessed that you cannot even stand to see men who fought and died for your country remembered...... then I don’t think you will ever listen to anyone else. 
 

Aye we sent British troops to Burma, I know plenty about that. But then they sent Indian troops to the western front. The battle of Monte casino in particular saw huge numbers of I’d Indians fighting and dying. One in particular was awarded the VC at 19 years of age for taking out several machine gun nests etc. 
 

Let’s just face it wilf you don’t like coloured people and it upsets you tht we remember how they fought alongside us and for us. Pretty shitty really mate. 

I knew at least 2 that shared my way of thinking, but they drummed one of them out of the Army for it ! Lol  

I genuinely don’t have a problem that darkies served in the war, I have no doubt that when they fought they were as brave and courageous as anyone else.

I have no doubt that within their area of operations they made as much sacrifice as anyone else.

My point is, why do we have keep falling over ourselves to specially mention these people.

They are not giving white soldiers a special mention in Africa or India are they.

Every single thing these days seems to be “well, British blokes did this……BUT let’s not forget the Black bloke, couldnt have done it without him”

Whats wrong with just saying, in Britain, “British blokes did this”

Whats so important that we need to ram the other bit in?……..the fact is, it’s nothing, we just ram it in because that’s what we do now and it’s total bollocks.

We know what it is, let’s not pretend

As Gnasher put it so well “it racial bean counting”…..making sure we have ticked all the boxes in case someone gets upset.

The only ones not allowed to be upset is us ! Lol 

Edited November 15, 2021 by WILF

[SheepChaser 8,082]

30 minutes ago, WILF said:

I knew at least 2 that shared my way of thinking, but they drummed one of them out of the Army for it ! Lol  

I genuinely don’t have a problem that darkies served in the war, I have no doubt that when they fought they were as brave and courageous as anyone else.

I have no doubt that within their area of operations they made as much sacrifice as anyone else.

My point is, why do we have keep falling over ourselves to specially mention these people.

They are not giving white soldiers a special mention in Africa or India are they.

Every single thing these days seems to be “well, British blokes did this……BUT let’s not forget the Black bloke, couldnt have done it without him”

Whats wrong with just saying, in Britain, “British blokes did this”

Whats so important that we need to ram the other bit in?……..the fact is, it’s nothing, we just ram it in because that’s what we do now and it’s total bollocks.

We know what it is, let’s not pretend

As Gnasher put it so well “it racial bean counting”…..making sure we have ticked all the boxes in case someone gets upset.

The only ones not allowed to be upset is us ! Lol 

Part of the problem is the more you talk the more it becomes obvious that your attitude is influenced by nothing other than your own opinion and you are in fact clueless about this. 
 

so - you have met two veterans  that served for Britain in ww2 and who agree that troops from Our empire did not fight in the numbers they did, because they were not wanted or needed ? Well I’m calling total bullshit on that one mate  

“Within their area of operations” they fought alongside us in every theatre of war, including the skys. I believe we even had about 5000 Indian fighter pilots stationed in the uk. But obviously more western troops fought in the west and more eastern in the east. That’s just logistical common sense. 
 

As for “not giving white soldiers special mention in Africa or India ..... I don’t think you grasp it do you. Every country in which white brits were stationed and fought, have cemeteries and memorials to those white troops - so yes in Africa there are special war memorials for white troops and they are also remembered in remembrance ceremonies........ why ? Because they were stationed and fought in Africa. Like Mchull ancestor was at El Alamein in Egypt - there is a big cemetery and memorial there for those troops abs there is a memorial service held there on Remembrance Day. Same as we remember the troops that were stationed and fought here. Like those silhouettes with the turbans which started this whole argument - they were stationed here and so are remembered here. 
 

What is truly remarkable about ww2 in particular is how so many races and nations came together for one great big scrap. It was a war which saw men of many races and religions fighting together side by side. 
 

The end of your point in this case is total Horse shit. You can dress it up whatever way you like - but that memoriaL at Hampton court palace remembered all of the men who were encamped there - both white and Indian. No one made any special Mention of the Indian troops apart from gnash and you. It wasn’t rammed down anyone’s throat - it was just a fair and rightful representation of who was stood in that field waiting to parade on the day of the victory parades, which is what it was aimed to depict. Only you would rather alter history so only the whites were remembered - that’s the fact. You just want your own version of history and are getting upset when the actual version is remembered. 
 

You’ve spouted a lot of shit on here - including thinking the massacre of women and children was a good thing (that was a really special one) but to say that our empire troops were not needed or wanted in the two world Wars and the numbers who fought and fell were made up..... is just wrong. 

 

[WILF 44,186]

3 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Part of the problem is the more you talk the more it becomes obvious that your attitude is influenced by nothing other than your own opinion and you are in fact clueless about this. 
 

so - you have met two veterans  that served for Britain in ww2 and who agree that troops from Our empire did not fight in the numbers they did, because they were not wanted or needed ? Well I’m calling total bullshit on that one mate  

I didn’t say anything about numbers, you said “who think like you do” ……if you meant numbers than I misunderstood your comment.

3 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

“Within their area of operations” they fought alongside us in every theatre of war, including the skys. I believe we even had about 5000 Indian fighter pilots stationed in the uk. But obviously more western troops fought in the west and more eastern in the east. That’s just logistical common sense. 

 

Except for D Day obviously…..oh sorry forgot, they only used racist photographers ! Lol 

3 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

As for “not giving white soldiers special mention in Africa or India ..... I don’t think you grasp it do you. Every country in which white brits were stationed and fought, have cemeteries and memorials to those white troops - so yes in Africa there are special war memorials for white troops and they are also remembered in remembrance ceremonies........ why ? Because they were stationed and fought in Africa. Like Mchull ancestor was at El Alamein in Egypt - there is a big cemetery and memorial there for those troops abs there is a memorial service held there on Remembrance Day. Same as we remember the troops that were stationed and fought here. Like those silhouettes with the turbans which started this whole argument - they were stationed here and so are remembered here. 

 

They probably gave them a mention in Rhodesia, but now that don’t exist I’m sure nobody gives a f**k 

3 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

What is truly remarkable about ww2 in particular is how so many races and nations came together for one great big scrap. It was a war which saw men of many races and religions fighting together side by side. 
 

The end of your point in this case is total Horse shit. You can dress it up whatever way you like - but that memoriaL at Hampton court palace remembered all of the men who were encamped there - both white and Indian. No one made any special Mention of the Indian troops apart from gnash and you. It wasn’t rammed down anyone’s throat - it was just a fair and rightful representation of who was stood in that field waiting to parade on the day of the victory parades, which is what it was aimed to depict. Only you would rather alter history so only the whites were remembered - that’s the fact. You just want your own version of history and are getting upset when the actual version is remembered. 
 

You’ve spouted a lot of shit on here - including thinking the massacre of women and children was a good thing (that was a really special one) but to say that our empire troops were not needed or wanted in the two world Wars and the numbers who fought and fell were made up..... is just wrong. 

 

Got to make sure we get them in there, wouldn’t want to get called the R word would we

[Astanley 11,465]

Since I was a kid ,troops from the Empire have been mentioned and acknowledged ,Gurkas , et al ,in my memory have always had a slice of thanks from all quarters ,.

The thing is we have been saturated with virtue signalling ,lefty numbskulls who have pushed their agendas so much in recent years ,we are constantly on the look out for it ,,,sometimes it's not there ,,sometime it's just a fair view of what has passed . I don't know how many served or what they did ,but I'm grateful they did ,and it seems wrong to me to begrudge them honourable mentions .

[OldPhil 5,347]

 I've never been in a war zone, I've never been, 'under fire' and never had to face the trauma that a member of the Armed Forces, could be put under,..but,..as a civvy (and a pensioner to boot) ..  I would have no problem in being protected and defended, by any fighting man in uniform....regardless of his race or colour...

He can be Black, White, or fecking Polka Dot for all I care....

[WILF 44,186]

34 minutes ago, Astanley said:

Since I was a kid ,troops from the Empire have been mentioned and acknowledged ,Gurkas , et al ,in my memory have always had a slice of thanks from all quarters ,.

The thing is we have been saturated with virtue signalling ,lefty numbskulls who have pushed their agendas so much in recent years ,we are constantly on the look out for it ,,,sometimes it's not there ,,sometime it's just a fair view of what has passed . I don't know how many served or what they did ,but I'm grateful they did ,and it seems wrong to me to begrudge them honourable mentions .

That’s a great post to be honest mate.

There was a time I would have tried to think all sensible like that, but now, I’m way past it.

Nobody wants to be sensible with us so I just think “f**k it”, I just tend to completely reject any of it…..extremes tend to end up being met with extremes.

Still they made the rules, not me.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

1 hour ago, WILF said:

I didn’t say anything about numbers, you said “who think like you do” ……if you meant numbers than I misunderstood your comment.

Except for D Day obviously…..oh sorry forgot, they only used racist photographers ! Lol 

They probably gave them a mention in Rhodesia, but now that don’t exist I’m sure nobody gives a f**k 

Got to make sure we get them in there, wouldn’t want to get called the R word would we

I said I have yet to meet any soldier who served in ww2 who holds any where near the same opinion about the fact that the numbers of these troops who fought was exaggerated and they weren’t there because we didn’t need or want them. 
 

You seem to think D day was the only battle in World War Two? Is that because they made a big popular movie about it I’ve already said that at the same time as D day was occurring Indian army and commonwealth  troops were killing about 10 x the number of enemy soldiers elsewhere at great loss to themselves. Also incidentally lots of Indians did take part in D day. We had something like 15,000 Indian pilots in the RAF and 25,000 pilots served in the Indian Air Force. They were there. 
 

What’s that about Rhodesia ? You can randomly lurch about from topic to topic as much as you like ignoring fact. But fact still remains. Lots of countries celebrate our contribution to the war. 
 

And no wilf ‘we’ are not racist as a nation, not at all. But sadly you are. Your only issue with respectfully remembering the contribution of men who fought and died next to men from this country is that they were non white so in your eyes we ‘shouldn’t’ recognise them and  are being ‘forced to’. Reality check...... most of us couldn’t care what colour a man is if he is willing to fight and die for the same thing as us.

Thats the fundamental difference between having a genuine fear or issue with immigration etc and the way our culture is changing and just plain old racism. The former has a point, the latter just doesn’t like Folk cos of their colour no matter what they are like or what they have done. Ie we shouldn’t respect those soldiers because they are not white and we are white. That my friend is racism and that is exactly the kind of shit that our fore fathers went to war to stop. 

[WILF 44,186]

8 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

I said I have yet to meet any soldier who served in ww2 who holds any where near the same opinion about the fact that the numbers of these troops who fought was exaggerated and they weren’t there because we didn’t need or want them. 
 

You seem to think D day was the only battle in World War Two? Is that because they made a big popular movie about it I’ve already said that at the same time as D day was occurring Indian army and commonwealth  troops were killing about 10 x the number of enemy soldiers elsewhere at great loss to themselves. Also incidentally lots of Indians did take part in D day. We had something like 15,000 Indian pilots in the RAF and 25,000 pilots served in the Indian Air Force. They were there. 
 

What’s that about Rhodesia ? You can randomly lurch about from topic to topic as much as you like ignoring fact. But fact still remains. Lots of countries celebrate our contribution to the war. 
 

And no wilf ‘we’ are not racist as a nation, not at all. But sadly you are. Your only issue with respectfully remembering the contribution of men who fought and died next to men from this country is that they were non white so in your eyes we ‘shouldn’t’ recognise them and  are being ‘forced to’. Reality check...... most of us couldn’t care what colour a man is if he is willing to fight and die for the same thing as us.

Thats the fundamental difference between having a genuine fear or issue with immigration etc and the way our culture is changing and just plain old racism. The former has a point, the latter just doesn’t like Folk cos of their colour no matter what they are like or what they have done. Ie we shouldn’t respect those soldiers because they are not white and we are white. That my friend is racism and that is exactly the kind of shit that our fore fathers went to war to stop. 

Why sadly ?…….I don’t think my views are making anyone sad are they ?

Our forefathers went to war to stop racism ?…..now who’s making stuff up ? Lol 

There was a time when we could have tried all that sorting the wheat from the chaff but folks like you wasn’t content with that was you…..it’s all or nothing isn’t it.

Well, if that’s how you want it then don’t complain when that’s how people behave

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Just now, WILF said:

Why sadly ?…….I don’t think my views are making anyone sad are they ?

Our forefathers went to war to stop racism ?…..now who’s making stuff up ? Lol 

There was a time when we could have tried all that sorting the wheat from the chaff but folks like you wasn’t content with that was you…..it’s all or nothing isn’t it.

Well, if that’s how you want it then don’t complain when that’s how people behave

Like I said before you are utterly incapable of taking in / on any other viewpoint than your own, which in some areas is fairly balanced and others totally blinkered and lacking in any real knowledge base.

Sadly probably the wrong word, I just feel a bit sorry for you (which I’m sure you don’t need or want i know) because it must suck to have some of the experiences that you have in the area you were from - that would make you want to disrespect veterans just because of their skin colour. 
 

And no, we didn’t go to war to ‘stop racism’ and I didn’t say that, I said that’s the kind of stuff out fire fathers went to war to stop. And it was - hitler / the third reich / the axis powers, whatever, were largely based upon a doctrine of racial segregation and ideas of white racial purity (which I’ve heard you spout on about here), most of what they stood for and believed in was aryan racial superiority. Sound familiar ? Most folk just want to war cos there was a war and that’s what you did. But we were fighting against the kind of folk who gassed people for being from a certain race......... so I’m going to hazard a guess that your beliefs and way of thinking is more akin to certain members of the opposing side than ours. Remember it was your words that we didn’t need or want the Indians (or other ethnics) in ww2. 
 

In comparison Winston Churchill who recognised the “unsurpassed bravery of Indian soldiers and officers” or Field marshal Claude auchinleck (Scottish name don’t worry he was a whitey) who said “the British could not have come through both world wars if they did not have the Indian army”.

Give it a rest with the “folks like me” / “if that’s how you want it” bull shit, who’s virtue signalling now ?  People like me who have the respect to remember folk who fought and died for us even if they were a different colour. 
 

All you ever want to do is find anything to divide people in to beat camps ie black and whites and “folk like me” and “folk like you”. 

[greg64 2,560]

my grandfather died in july 1942 in the first battle of el alamein and he fought alongside the indian infantry  his name is on the memorial at el alamein along with lots of fallen indian infantry men