Dyfed-Powys SGC Renewal

[walshie 2,804]

This isn't another bash-the-police topic. Quite the opposite.

Mrs w's SGC runs out in December. Last Saturday (16th) she posted her paperwork off and Tuesday (19th) the FEO phoned her referee and then phoned her asking a couple of questions about cabinet, drinking habits etc. At the end of the phone call he said he'd already sent her new SGC off for signing.

 Well done DP Police.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

How it should be

[si brown 8,486]

There are some forces that stand out when you read about variations and the like taking forever. 
I can’t fault North Yorkshire if you need any advice or anything there more than willing to help you out and turnarounds are well swift

[terryd 8,043]

Yes I have never had a problem with them. I assume she did the doctors form and all that ? That is the going to biggest pain got to do mine soon 

[walshie 2,804]

9 minutes ago, terryd said:

Yes I have never had a problem with them. I assume she did the doctors form and all that ? That is the going to biggest pain got to do mine soon 

Yes, she did. £50 to tick a few boxes. 

[3175darren 1,093]

5 hours ago, walshie said:

This isn't another bash-the-police topic. Quite the opposite.

Mrs w's SGC runs out in December. Last Saturday (16th) she posted her paperwork off and Tuesday (19th) the FEO phoned her referee and then phoned her asking a couple of questions about cabinet, drinking habits etc. At the end of the phone call he said he'd already sent her new SGC off for signing.

 Well done DP Police.

Good for her mate, and well done to the bobbies, I am still awaiting renewal FAC and Shotgun from June, and nothing has changed at all, I am not normally waiting this long, and have only really had good experiences with FEO’s , 

[si brown 8,486]

21 minutes ago, walshie said:

Yes, she did. £50 to tick a few boxes. 

Had a pint with a mate last night who’s doctor charged £90 the other week:(

[FLATTOP 3,665]

In reference to a medical I’ve just had a letter drop on my floor this morning from my GP and it says the following.

We would accordingly advise that we will no longer be able to provide medical reports or complete medical forms in respect of of patients firearms applications or renewal of firearms certificates.

I don’t recall my firearms officer asking for a medical last time around but if they do in future what do you do change doctors.

I reckon Mr Plymouth random shooter has a lot to do with these decisions what they have done is absolved there selves of any future blame if a loon slips through the net.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

I know of no act of Parliament making it a legal requirement so I would send your firearms team a copy of that letter come the time of renewal.

Because so many have capitulated it's going to make it difficult for people who don't like organisations making it difficult  for the people they should be serving in order to simply cover the organisations rears!

The way the country is decaying on an administrive level we will be handing bribes over soon!

[lllluke1 328]

On 25/10/2021 at 07:59, walshie said:

This isn't another bash-the-police topic. Quite the opposite.

Mrs w's SGC runs out in December. Last Saturday (16th) she posted her paperwork off and Tuesday (19th) the FEO phoned her referee and then phoned her asking a couple of questions about cabinet, drinking habits etc. At the end of the phone call he said he'd already sent her new SGC off for signing.

 Well done DP Police.

Normally I would agree with you, They took a month to change my ticket from closed to open on a .223 and a .22lr.  But I've been waiting 3 months now for a variation for a .22 hornet

[Alsone 789]

19 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

I know of no act of Parliament making it a legal requirement so I would send your firearms team a copy of that letter come the time of renewal.

Because so many have capitulated it's going to make it difficult for people who don't like organisations making it difficult  for the people they should be serving in order to simply cover the organisations rears!

The way the country is decaying on an administrive level we will be handing bribes over soon!

I don't see why we should have to pay for reports. If you apply for a driving licence and the DVLA writes to your doctor, you don't get charged for that.

Even then I wouldn't mind but after the intial application report which you pay for out of your now unfairly large application fee, (don't I already pay the Police to carry out their duties through my local Government Taxes?), any report the doctor prepares on renenewal is only an addition to the notes he held since the last time you renewed, so it's not as if it's a long trawl through decades worth of notes, only the notes since the last renewal report  which the doctor can simply amend into the new report by adding on any changes of concern since the date of that report.

For a lot of people, that may only be 2 or 3 visits since the last renewal. Even for a frequent attendeee, once you have a certificate, your notes are flagged as belonging to a certificate holder, and so presumably any matters of concern are are also flagged at a visit making a search on a modern pc system these days much easier as you can filter the notes by flags making the search a 1 second operation, and the preparation of the report and cut and paste operation of anything additional taking only a few seconds. Anything missed can be double checked by a keyword search for key words eg, violence, depression, suicide etc.

In my opinion, this is just another attempt to force people out of gun ownership by a quite widely biased medical profession many of whom see guns only as instruments of violence by criminals and not an essential countryside and conservation tool and a Government that's also complicit in wanting to prevent ownership by using backdoor means of price or the burdening of people with regulations / red tape to hassle people out of ownership. I'm all for measures that prevent tragedy, but a lot of measures are unecessary. eg FAC Air being FAC air and not SGC Air for the smaller calibres (.30 or below), 2 referees for FAC rather than 1  for SGC, not always easy given the criteria and somtime lack of wilingness for people to become involved, the cost of the certifcate and having to pay for medical reports - as these go to public safety, shouldn't they be free?

Thank god for the good Doctors out there who either understand or have taken time to understand what legal ownership is all about and means for future of farming and the conservation.

Full marks to DP Police on this occasion.

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Alsone

[Sausagedog 7,381]

The thing is, nutters don't go the doctors for help. People with a mental health illness that do get help are as sound as any other person because the got help or at least  asked so their medical  record is no warning at all.

If the police actually phoned the gp someone has given the police permission to approach the gp's  response would be if it was someone......special, alarming!

As it is, its just box ticking exercise and with so many things British police, nothing will change for the good, especially for public safety!

I would love to know where this clinic is! You know, the one where your brains are removed to get in high office. It must be there somewhere and what do they do with all that brain matter? 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Sausagedog

[Alsone 789]

I'm all for a written report of just facts with no opinion. The problem with opinion or phonecalls is if a GP is biased against owenership, a phone call opens up for opinions to be given off the record, opinions that could be based on bias and not fact. At least with a written report that is factual only, it's probably possible in theory at least, for an applicant or their legal represenatative to obtain the report under a FOA or Data protection request, thus opening up an untruthful or biased report to legal action. This at least assists in keeping reports factually accurate and opinion free.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Alsone

[Sausagedog 7,381]

51 minutes ago, Alsone said:

I'm all for a written report of just facts with no opinion. The problem with opinion or phonecalls is if a GP is biased against owenership, a phone call opens up for opinions to be given off the record, opinions that could be based on bias and not fact. At least with a written report that is factual only, it's probably possible in theory at least, for an applicant or their legal represenatative to obtain the report under a FOA or Data protection request, thus opening up an untruthful or biased report to legal action. This at least assists in keeping reports factually accurate and opinion free.

Well no really mate. The police are given permission  to access one's medical records. If a biased opinion was given the police by a doctor that's when they actually read the history to look for evidence to back the opinion up or otherwise.

It was an ill thought out mitigation measure after Dunblane because the police covering Hamilton where exposed for incompetence and corruption but still got away with it!

In other words, it was wrong from the get go.

[Alsone 789]

The police are not given permission to access your records. Your doctor cannot disclose or copy the records or show any part of them to the police.

The police are given permission to obtain a medical report from your doctor which can be factual only. ie the doctors report will be a list of any relevent attendances eg. Attended doctor on 12.10.21 - complained of low mood, Attended on 05.04.19 - suffering symptoms of anxiety,....

The doctor is not allowed to give an opinion as to whether or not the facts affect your ability to hold a licence.

The whole point of this system is it take bias out of the equation. If the police are concerned about the entries, then they can seek their own opinion from an appointed expert.

At least that's my understanding of how it works.