FAC application, some help and advice please

[Alsone 789]

Yep The FX impacts at 80ft lbs or some even at 140ft lbs, are the business when it comes to air. But, I'm no expert on air and your intial 4 gun is not a bad plan. I just think for your use there's some duplication that could be better with 3 or even 2 guns.

Without the pens I personally would have gone HMR + maybe CF if I needed long range fox. With the sheds there's an argument for air but then depending on FAC or non FAC affects the need for the HMR. Without long range fox, HMR might have done both pests and close range fox, force dependent.

Others might have chosen .22lr instead of HMR.

When you throw in shed and pens, air becomes more viable so you could add a 12ft lbs, or you could go variable FAC air as you identified but then it raises the question of if you need a rimfire. Only fox makes that necessary but not if you're only taking longer range fox when CF comes into it's own. FAC air isn't likely to be authorsied for fox in the Uk even if it's suitable. Without a rimmy it may leave a gap for close range fox. It all depends on your usage. Either way, I don't see a need for 2 rimmy's.

As you can see there's no right or wrong answer. It's all a bit fluid. All I'm trying to say to you without putting you down any particular path is consider duplication because it's a bit of a shame to spend £1K + a gun setup only to find you have no need for it and it sits in the cabinet because one of your other guns does everything you need. The real duplication here is .22 and HMR unless you have a need for silence in which case .22 is unbeatable. However, air throws a spanner in the works as above depending on usage and type which may remove the need for a rimmy altogether depending on the fox requirements.

I hope that all makes some sense and it's only my opinion. Others may have differing views. You can always run any amended plan and needs by us all here for further comments. A good starting point is always to identify your actual needs rather than ideas on what you might need. eg if you're never going to take a fox beyond 50 or 60yds because the land isn't very open, there's no need for CF.

[villaman 9,979]

27 minutes ago, Steviec said:

Just a quick update lads, I contacted West Yorkshire Police and apparently the land has never had a search done, I’m told that they will visit and check the land once my application is in.

   Villaman, judging by your results I’m wondering whether I actually need a .22 lr! Did you get all four guns on your initial grant with no questions asked?.

A .25 impact running at 70+ ft lb definitely sounds good .

First two were FAC air then 6 months later put  in for 17 HMR & .22 lr all four on a open license straight off.

imo FAC air will do more than .22lr , specially FX guns 

[villaman 9,979]

2 hours ago, Dervburner said:

Any idea what the .25 crowns run at out of the box vm? I know yours is .22 but I was considering a crown in .25, I don’t want a stupid long barrel on it though, 500 max.

Around about 900 FPS with 500mm barrel, but I would imagine with a tune 930-940 FPS depending on weight of ammo 

Personally I would look at the wildcat mk3 sniper , probably shorter than the crown

[BenBhoy 4,706]

40 minutes ago, Steviec said:

I’m told that they will visit and check the land once my application is in.

[Deker 3,453]

27 minutes ago, villaman said:

First two were FAC air then 6 months later put  in for 17 HMR & .22 lr all four on a open license straight off.

imo FAC air will do more than .22lr , specially FX guns 

I hear what you say, BUT!!!!

FAC AIR (a decent one) will cost a lot to buy, at least twice (maybe 3x) the price of a .22lr.  Ammo for a .22LR is available from circa 30-200ft lb, which gives it much more versatility that FAC air.  FAC Air, particularly higher powers, needs a lot of Air, so you need bottles and refills, and FAC AIR Bullets, and some slugs are not that cheap.  I totally agree that FAC Air can be/is more accurate than some of the ammo available and workable in a .22LR, but only in the newer/better/more expensive FAC Air.

Hence why I have Air, FAC Air, .22Lr, HMR, WMR etc, I have them all because they serve different purposes (of course there are areas of crossover), so, even though FAC Air has come a long way over the last few years, EVERYONE needs a .22LR in the tool box! 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Deker

[Dervburner 2,548]

17 minutes ago, villaman said:

Around about 900 FPS with 500mm barrel, but I would imagine with a tune 930-940 FPS depending on weight of ammo 

Personally I would look at the wildcat mk3 sniper , probably shorter than the crown

Thanks for that vm, I’ve had a look at the new wildcat, it’s nice but I don’t have an itch for it whereas I do for the crown. 

[Deker 3,453]

Anyway, back to the topic, nothing to stop him applying for everything on the list as long as he can show why, if/when asked!

I wouldn't suggest running out and buying all of them day one if granted just the same.

Start with a .22LR and decide where you want to go after that! 

[villaman 9,979]

21 minutes ago, Deker said:

I hear what you say, BUT!!!!

FAC AIR (a decent one) will cost a lot to buy, at least twice (maybe 3x) the price of a .22lr.  Ammo for a .22LR is available from circa 30-200ft lb, which gives it much more versatility that FAC air.  FAC Air, particularly higher powers, needs a lot of Air, so you need bottles and refills, and FAC AIR Bullets, and some slugs are not that cheap.  I totally agree that FAC Air can be/is more accurate than some of the ammo available and workable in a .22LR, but only in the newer/better/more expensive FAC Air.

Hence why I have Air, FAC Air, .22Lr, HMR, WMR etc, I have them all because they serve different purposes (of course there are areas of crossover), so, even though FAC Air has come a long way over the last few years, EVERYONE needs a .22LR in the tool box! 

Sorry but a decent FAC air is more versatile than .22lr  and yes some slugs are taking the piss in price , 22lr ammo £12-13 per hundred I can buy 200 ZAN slugs delivered to my door for that , which are absolutely fantastic and H&N slug which are on par but £10 per 200 delivered  . Yes the out lay is around £1600 compared to £600 for rimfire, but I use FAC air far more than my 22lr . I wouldn’t be shooting in trees with 22lr or anything past 100 yards 

you need to go out with a decent FAC air for a day and see exactly what they can do . You never know you might see my point

[Dervburner 2,548]

So.....which is better?

 

 

[villaman 9,979]

.177 sub 12

[Dervburner 2,548]

12 hours ago, villaman said:

.177 sub 12

Yerr, thought so......

[Metalman2 45]

On 05/10/2021 at 18:53, villaman said:

Sorry but a decent FAC air is more versatile than .22lr  and yes some slugs are taking the piss in price , 22lr ammo £12-13 per hundred I can buy 200 ZAN slugs delivered to my door for that , which are absolutely fantastic and H&N slug which are on par but £10 per 200 delivered  . Yes the out lay is around £1600 compared to £600 for rimfire, but I use FAC air far more than my 22lr . I wouldn’t be shooting in trees with 22lr or anything past 100 yards 

you need to go out with a decent FAC air for a day and see exactly what they can do . You never know you might see my point

Using that much Air, would you have to factor in a compressor 

The OP also has to remember he needs two referees of good character. When my boy applied, his boss was one of his but turned out he needed another 

[Steviec 190]

Morning all  Firstly many thanks for all your help and advice, it really is appreciated .

I thought I would give an update so below is a list of what I am applying for based on  your comments and the reasons (justification) for my choice.

.22 FAC air + moderator- vermin control and target/range/club shooting.

.25 FAC air + moderator- vermin control and target/range club shooting.

.17 HMR + moderator-vermin control  and target/range club shooting 

.223 C/F + moderator- fox control and target/range/club shooting 

      I was going to initially apply for either a .22 WMR or .22 Hornet because the landowner wants the fox numbers thinning down however I have listed the .223 c/f as I know this is the more accepted foxing round with most police forces but if it’s declined by the FEO then hopefully I can negotiate and hopefully be granted either the Hornet or the WMR which I would be more than happy with .

Again any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Steve

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Steviec
Added information

[Deker 3,453]

5 hours ago, Steviec said:

Morning all  Firstly many thanks for all your help and advice, it really is appreciated .

I thought I would give an update so below is a list of what I am applying for based on  your comments and the reasons (justification) for my choice.

.22 FAC air + moderator- vermin control and target/range/club shooting.

.25 FAC air + moderator- vermin control and target/range club shooting.

.17 HMR + moderator-vermin control  and target/range club shooting 

.223 C/F + moderator- fox control and target/range/club shooting 

      I was going to initially apply for either a .22 WMR or .22 Hornet because the landowner wants the fox numbers thinning down however I have listed the .223 c/f as I know this is the more accepted foxing round with most police forces but if it’s declined by the FEO then hopefully I can negotiate and hopefully be granted either the Hornet or the WMR which I would be more than happy with .

Again any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Steve

 

We always used to add ZEROING as well!

[Steviec 190]

1 hour ago, Deker said:

We always used to add ZEROING as well!

Doh, forgot that!. Can it be added at the FEO home visit?.