Dogs throwing the towel in and breeding.

[Mr Wilkes 2,913]

He took a fair amount of stick for it… ( on farcebook) I took that snapshot from his site.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

1 hour ago, Mr Wilkes said:

Did someone mention waiting till a dog is six before breeding from it..

The spaniel lads have been at it for years....... the collie folk are even worse but I would say Ian (rytex) would know his stuff and his line seeing as he was running dogs with my old man at field trial champ level when I was a little boy and I’m 36 now. 

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Ian openshaw would be one of the best spaniel men in the country. 

[3dumb 219]

Been an interesting read this has.. 

To throw another question in; there's a lot of speak about the age of the bitch to be lined, but what about the sire?

Would most prefer to line their bitch with a proven worker of 4/5 seasons, or is a young sire of perhaps the 3, with hard proven work, good enough if he has the capabilities you're looking for?

[lurchers 2,596]

6 minutes ago, 3dumb said:

Been an interesting read this has.. 

To throw another question in; there's a lot of speak about the age of the bitch to be lined, but what about the sire?

Would most prefer to line their bitch with a proven worker of 4/5 seasons, or is a young sire of perhaps the 3, with hard proven work, good enough if he has the capabilities you're looking for?

Yip you you think he what you want

[scottpenn28 244]

2 hours ago, gnipper said:

Surely they didn't use a pup on purpose? The kc won't register them either.

Things could have changed but when registering litter of kc wcs i bred the only condition relating to age was the dam needing to be under 8 years of age. If she was older than 8 then a different application was needed. 

[SheepChaser 8,082]

23 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

Things could have changed but when registering litter of kc wcs i bred the only condition relating to age was the dam needing to be under 8 years of age. If she was older than 8 then a different application was needed. 

They can be registered and those pups have all been pre booked I would think. 

[Bearfoot 1,476]

4 hours ago, zigzag dan said:

My family ran an animal feed business for a long time and didn't take me long to realise that it was the same small group of men who had the best livestock no matter what they kept, when they kept lurchers their dogs were top class, pigeons, they won everything, trotting horses, won everything again etc. 

On getting to know them, I realised that they only used, tried and tested lines, fed the best possible feed, and most importantly, didn't keep hold of an average animal whilst kidding themselves that they could make it a world beater. 

I don't know him personally but AS is a good example of these men, dominated the coursing world with Dancer, Blondie etc, did very well with trotters and i believe now is top table with spaniels in the Field Trials game....... Its not just a coincidence. 

 

[scottpenn28 244]

44 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

They can be registered and those pups have all been pre booked I would think. 

Definitely! Sold long before they hit the ground other than what he plans to keep back. Then those he keeps will likely be sold if they don't make the grade. Top trainer, proof in the amount of ftch's hes made up. The dogs that don't meet his standard will be more than good enough for average Joe. Anyway back to lurchers

My opinion on breeding lurchers won't be worth much but after reading 11/12 pages of reading I may as well throw it in, somewhat unconfidently! 

My life with working spaniels means pedigrees have always been considered even if the sire/dam hadn't done much of anything. I bred my girl with a dog that had a very decent pedigree, and had a style similar to hers but with a few more desirable qualities I was looking for. Cracking pups! Some now being trained to trial other to work in beating line and 1 as an outright pet.

Brought my first lurcher back in February knowing virtually nothing of bloodlines,  coursing people or many people that actually work lurchers, did my research about what x would be suited and considered my quarry. Decided what I needed to look for and put the feelers out. Ended up with a million messages from all sorts of people over the country, 90% of which had the best dog in the land. Have ended up now with a dog that wasn't what I went looking for but breeder is good lad and actually had proof of sire and dams work, he's helped me out massively and pup is keen as mustard. No idea if she's got good bloodline, im thinking she has, but parents doing/done good job and a fair wack of it so good enough for me. 

For me personally the parents jacking a 5/6 would be a little off putting but doesn't means pup would do same.

 

 

[jeemes 3,491]

12 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

Definitely! Sold long before they hit the ground other than what he plans to keep back. Then those he keeps will likely be sold if they don't make the grade. Top trainer, proof in the amount of ftch's hes made up. The dogs that don't meet his standard will be more than good enough for average Joe. Anyway back to lurchers

My opinion on breeding lurchers won't be worth much but after reading 11/12 pages of reading I may as well throw it in, somewhat unconfidently! 

My life with working spaniels means pedigrees have always been considered even if the sire/dam hadn't done much of anything. I bred my girl with a dog that had a very decent pedigree, and had a style similar to hers but with a few more desirable qualities I was looking for. Cracking pups! Some now being trained to trial other to work in beating line and 1 as an outright pet.

Brought my first lurcher back in February knowing virtually nothing of bloodlines,  coursing people or many people that actually work lurchers, did my research about what x would be suited and considered my quarry. Decided what I needed to look for and put the feelers out. Ended up with a million messages from all sorts of people over the country, 90% of which had the best dog in the land. Have ended up now with a dog that wasn't what I went looking for but breeder is good lad and actually had proof of sire and dams work, he's helped me out massively and pup is keen as mustard. No idea if she's got good bloodline, im thinking she has, but parents doing/done good job and a fair wack of it so good enough for me. 

For me personally the parents jacking a 5/6 would be a little off putting but doesn't means pup would do same.

 

 

It sounds like you were lucky to drop on a decent bloke mate.  The best breeders to get a pup off are men who are only breeding for themselves and have good knowledge of breeding and very high standards, but its a mine field.

When you talk about studying pedigrees I would suggest that unless you have personal knowledge or trust then I wouldnt read most KC pedigrees as fact. It is very easy to mess with a kc ped. Thats why I mention trust, because the messing isnt always bad but you need to have personal knowledge.

[scottpenn28 244]

3 minutes ago, jeemes said:

It sounds like you were lucky to drop on a decent bloke mate.  The best breeders to get a pup off are men who are only breeding for themselves and have good knowledge of breeding and very high standards, but its a mine field.

When you talk about studying pedigrees I would suggest that unless you have personal knowledge or trust then I wouldnt read most KC pedigrees as fact. It is very easy to mess with a kc ped. Thats why I mention trust, because the messing isnt always bad but you need to have personal knowledge.

Oh god yeah, manipulating a pedigree is easy! I've been asked before if I would use a particular dog as a stud because the chap wanted a pup but then asked if I would register it as his other dog because the dog he wanted a pup of isn't kc registered and is actually a sprocker.  I didnt but would have been easy to do and from experience know that kc dont check up on that! I believe rytex have been in hot water not so long ago because of sprocker bloodline in their dogs, and in particular a dog gifted to a very famous lady

[Black neck 15,161]

1 hour ago, W. Katchum said:

Never mind shoots, see it on here everyday, iv saw folk planning on what to put to there pups, before they got there pup on here folk planning on studs in first sn second seasons graft, an then like previously mentioned, they mention a stud dog, they know nowt about other them a pic on here

Had a word wi Ray yet 

[jeemes 3,491]

19 hours ago, mC HULL said:

i seen fast bull crosses mate its the turning and going again and again they struggle with lol

if only speed killed aye lol

If you want to kill Hares, why would you use a Bullx?  and if you have a Bullx it should be a half x, capable of warming a Hare up but killing everything else except perhaps Roe.

[gnipper 5,944]

2 hours ago, scottpenn28 said:

Things could have changed but when registering litter of kc wcs i bred the only condition relating to age was the dam needing to be under 8 years of age. If she was older than 8 then a different application was needed. 

I'm pretty sure the dog has to be over 12 months too but can't be arsed trawling through the kc site to find it.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

10 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

In these days when dog prices have doubled so has the amount a breeders an shit or young dogs being bred off

I doubt that has much to do with the spaniel litter above and it I was offered one out that litter I’d take it in a heart beat