Can they improve?

[scottpenn28 244]

Hi all, 

My pup isn't 12 months old until January so won't be doing much at all with her this year as big believer in ruining dogs if started hard too early.

Have recently seen a massive amount of lurchers for sale that are just turned a year old and even lurchers up to 5 year old for sale/swap. I'm assuming these dogs aren't making the grade that the owner wants. However from my own experience working spaniels, a spaniel may not be at its full trained potential for 4/5 years anyway. 

Can lurchers not be improved with training? If my lurcher doesn't have the stamina I need it to then I'm under the impression I can train its stamina. Surely with age an experience the majority of lurchers will become better hunters purely through experience? 

Can lurchers be improved or is the amount currently for sale/swap just the owners being lazy and not wanting to out the time and effort in? 

forgive me if im being dumb or naive but my first lurcher im bringing on and am genuinely curious if people don't think running dogs can improve

[tank34 2,178]

3 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

Hi all, 

My pup isn't 12 months old until January so won't be doing much at all with her this year as big believer in ruining dogs if started hard too early.

Have recently seen a massive amount of lurchers for sale that are just turned a year old and even lurchers up to 5 year old for sale/swap. I'm assuming these dogs aren't making the grade that the owner wants. However from my own experience working spaniels, a spaniel may not be at its full trained potential for 4/5 years anyway. 

Can lurchers not be improved with training? If my lurcher doesn't have the stamina I need it to then I'm under the impression I can train its stamina. Surely with age an experience the majority of lurchers will become better hunters purely through experience? 

Can lurchers be improved or is the amount currently for sale/swap just the owners being lazy and not wanting to out the time and effort in? 

forgive me if im being dumb or naive but my first lurcher im bringing on and am genuinely curious if people don't think running dogs can improve

Yes a dog can improve with different owner put time in can soon change a dog tobe better then with last owner 

[Greb147 6,808]

Of course a dog can be improved on it's physical and mental capabilities but on the otherhand you can't polish a turd.

[tank34 2,178]

13 minutes ago, Greb147 said:

Of course a dog can be improved on it's physical and mental capabilities but on the otherhand you can't polish a turd.

Have seen some turds polished up to be very good dogs before lots of tlc an time can soon get a dog to work well for you not all dog but most will 

[scottpenn28 244]

18 minutes ago, Greb147 said:

Of course a dog can be improved on it's physical and mental capabilities but on the otherhand you can't polish a turd.

Like I say I'm under the impression that any dog can improve but with dogs being sold off at a year old or 18 months, is this people not wanting to put the effort in or have they a duff pup? I cant imagine at 18 months old a dog is anywhere near its full potential 

[darbo 4,774]

Some people want instant results with young dogs some dont put the effort in and have little patience. Do your best hope for the best but you cant put in what nature left out.

[toolebox 1,384]

I can keep a huge number of working dogs ,I do so because I can & I enjoy it ,its the whole point of the game ,and without doubt I can say given some age and plenty of work they all do improve .Some don't develop much passed pack fillers ,some become good solid workers and the odd one develops into a great dog ,with these top dogs I've noted  something special as a pup in fact its as thou they don't have much of a pup stage at all. They behave like a adult from a very early age ,however I always  expect nothing and treat them with "kid gloves" softly, softly. Of all of the top dogs I have bred and ran on have showed me early that they have the x factor & have gone on to be great dogs IF given the opportunity, and this is something I go right out of my way  to make happen. I'd rather  have the young dog catch the one rabbit then go home than get a huge total with the older dogs ,I even save hot spots for this .Even the best bred young dog wont get any better if it does not get the required effort and as stated above some patience from their owners .   

Edited August 18, 2021 by toolebox

[scottpenn28 244]

9 minutes ago, darbo said:

Some people want instant results with young dogs some dont put the effort in and have little patience. Do your best hope for the best but you cant put in what nature left out.

Tbh 90% of dogs i see for sale, be that pups or older dogs, all tend to have the name of what I would assume is a very well known dog thrown in as the father or at least his lines. I dont know much about coursing dogs or their names as have done a lot more work with spaniels but I can only assume these dogs were top of their game and serviced the majority of bitches around the country. By that logic it would seem that the parents are doing the stuff required....minus the obviously bad pups which occur is most litters. So my thinking is that say 75% of dogs around, sound like they have the makeup of being able to cut it with the best but are getting shipped around due to lack of time and effort of the owners.

[scottpenn28 244]

9 minutes ago, toolebox said:

I can keep a huge number of working dogs ,I do so because I can & I enjoy it ,its the whole point of the game ,and without doubt I can say given some age and plenty of work they all do improve .Some don't develop much passed pack fillers ,some become good solid workers and the odd one develops into a great dog ,with these top dogs I've noted  something special as a pup in fact its as thou they don't have much of a pup stage at all. They behave like a adult from a very early age ,however I always  expect nothing and treat them with "kid gloves" softly, softly. Of all of the top dogs I have bred and ran on have showed me early that they have the x factor & have gone on to be great dogs IF given the opportunity, and this is something I go right out of my way  to make happen. I'd rather  have the young dog catch the one rabbit then go home than get a huge total with the older dogs ,I even save hot spots for this .Even the best bred young dog wont get any better if it doers not get the required effort from their owners .   

This is brilliant. I know with every dog its a lottery, big field trialist in the spaniel world save the entire litter and then will sell off what isn't cutting the mustard but as you say, there will be some dogs that just have it and they can recognise it. But thats not to day that the other pups in the litter won't make fantastic working dogs for the average Joe given time and effort. Havent not been in this game really it has thrown me slightly how the dogs are being sold an swapped. I could understand if you kept the full litter and then sold off the pups that weren't making your grade  but to swap for another dog just seems crazy. Surely 2 dogs being swapped is just 2 dogs that aren't cutting it from different people?

[mC HULL 10,404]

20 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

This is brilliant. I know with every dog its a lottery, big field trialist in the spaniel world save the entire litter and then will sell off what isn't cutting the mustard but as you say, there will be some dogs that just have it and they can recognise it. But thats not to day that the other pups in the litter won't make fantastic working dogs for the average Joe given time and effort. Havent not been in this game really it has thrown me slightly how the dogs are being sold an swapped. I could understand if you kept the full litter and then sold off the pups that weren't making your grade  but to swap for another dog just seems crazy. Surely 2 dogs being swapped is just 2 dogs that aren't cutting it from different people?

Some just haven't a clue mate dont even get out and work them its all a daft game to em 

[scottpenn28 244]

15 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Some just haven't a clue mate dont even get out and work them its all a daft game to em 

Is it only fairly recently that lurchers have become so readily available to swap and sell at older ages? Cant ever remember hearing of,  or seeing this much when I was younger and my old man and uncle ran lurchers. To me a dog that is 3/4 years old would be in its prime? 

[mC HULL 10,404]

2 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

Is it only fairly recently that lurchers have become so readily available to swap and sell at older ages? Cant ever remember hearing of,  or seeing this much when I was younger and my old man and uncle ran lurchers. To me a dog that is 3/4 years old would be in its prime? 

Its worse now I think mate a dog 4 year old would be in its prime mate

A dog at that age wouldn't be something you'd take on unless you was paying good money for it and had seen it doing what was asked of it really 

What type is your pup mate

 

[Gilbey 1,405]

3 minutes ago, scottpenn28 said:

Is it only fairly recently that lurchers have become so readily available to swap and sell at older ages? Cant ever remember hearing of,  or seeing this much when I was younger and my old man and uncle ran lurchers. To me a dog that is 3/4 years old would be in its prime? 

It's nothing new. Always been Muppets, be nothing wrong with plenty of them dogs. Swap a coursing type for lamper, then a terrier, then a air gun etc. Or selling a ten week old pup because the lass has just had a baby or it doesn't match the colour of the curtains

[scottpenn28 244]

4 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Its worse now I think mate a dog 4 year old would be in its prime mate

A dog at that age wouldn't be something you'd take on unless you was paying good money for it and had seen it doing what was asked of it really 

What type is your pup mate

 

Possibly easier to see due to social media but could be wrong. 

Shes mainly saluki x grey but got a touch of bull in her. Tbh when I was on lookout for a pup I had so many people messaging me about dogs. But the mother and father to her were just a cut above everything else I was seeing in terms of work. 

Different to what I was originally looking for but just couldn't turn her down 

[scottpenn28 244]

8 minutes ago, Gilbey said:

It's nothing new. Always been Muppets, be nothing wrong with plenty of them dogs. Swap a coursing type for lamper, then a terrier, then a air gun etc. Or selling a ten week old pup because the lass has just had a baby or it doesn't match the colour of the curtains

The curtain comment made me laugh! Really baffled me that lads are swapping dogs either so young of in their prime