ChrisJones 7,973 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Francie said: General milly should be hung drawn a quartered,he called china in last few days talking about the president an nuclear weapons. As if trump was going to drop a nuclear weapon,what kind of general calls the enemy an gives them a heads up? An he supports critical race theory ffs an wants more trannys an binary people in the military an cia. What a complete an utter waste of space that milley is,complete useless an a danger to america,he needs tryed for treason. Are you starting to figure out why we want the entire government to be defunded? 3 hours ago, WILF said: Surely if you want to counter the threat of China the safest most sensible way would be to stop buying shit from China and making them rich enough to build themselves into a super power ?……or is that a bit silly ? Here is a pretty good example of how to vote with your wallet. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: I think economic tactics have a place but if we just cut them off then not only does that hurt us but it very clearly says ‘we’re enemies and this is war’. I mean this is warming up to a second Cold War and a Cold War is only one bad decision from being a world war. Do we really want to be escalating to a full Cold War status? Do you think it could be done gradually? If people stopped buying Chinese goods the economics aspect would be gradual. I do agree that cutting them off entirely would a bold declaration. 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: I think we need to remember that China aren’t our enemy. I disagree there, my friend. We may not be at the point of directing munitions at each other but the wolf is circling the flock. 3 hours ago, Born Hunter said: They’re a growing power with very different ethics and philosophies to the west and as such there will be areas of conflict but that doesn’t mean we can’t move forward carefully and peacefully. Cutting them off would be a serious escalation and would force the world to be split in half and make either half of no use to the other and so remove any reason for them not to wipe the other out. I agree. I've always maintained that the Chinese make more money through trade than they would with conquest. I do wonder at what the point that would tip the other way. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,622 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: Do you think it could be done gradually? If people stopped buying Chinese goods the economics aspect would be gradual. I do agree that cutting them off entirely would a bold declaration People are free to boycott whoever they want. That could be instantaneous and wouldn’t be seen as an escalation in the same way that a legally mandated boycott would. 29 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: I disagree there, my friend. We may not be at the point of directing munitions at each other but the wolf is circling the flock. I think this is semantic. I’ve been explicit about the threat that the rise of China is to world peace for some time. But we kill our ‘enemies’. They are a potential enemy, a serious concern, the enemy of some, but the west aren’t there yet. We’re in competition with them and how that competition plays out will determine how much we come to see each other as enemies. I think ‘adversary’ is the term. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: People are free to boycott whoever they want. That could be instantaneous and wouldn’t be seen as an escalation in the same way that a legally mandated boycott would. Agreed but looking at how they're the keystone of global manufacturing I doubt it would make a huge impact. Could but ultimately won't. 8 minutes ago, Born Hunter said: I think ‘adversary’ is the term. Yeah. From our side looking at how Chinese fentanyl is being pushed into the US via Mexico in the ongoing drug war I believe we're a little further along than it appears on the surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 20,802 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 This popped up on my phone today.... Load of Afghans pissed off cos they have to live in Scotland Worlds gone mad. Or at least Britain has 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DIDO.1 20,802 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 His brother was shot and badly injured by those dastardly Taliban 3 weeks ago, but he's OK now so he's on his way as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,093 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) On 19/09/2021 at 11:21, WILF said: Surely if you want to counter the threat of China the safest most sensible way would be to stop buying shit from China and making them rich enough to build themselves into a super power ?……or is that a bit silly ? Try buying an electrical component thats not traced back to China.. then try building any electrical system without using China... If you go to a UK contractor to build electrical parts for you they will almost certainly be buying the small components from China... if you want a PCB built you'll pay up to 3 times the cost for a UK company to build it, but still have Chinese sourced parts... There is a chance in using US parts and even subbing to a US company (something im looking at) but its not easy or anything like cost efficient.... Even as a UK manufacturing company I have to concede that certain parts HAVE to come from China for us to have any chance of competing with the Phillips, Dyson etc of this world.. Edited September 23, 2021 by NEWKID 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mushroom 12,352 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Try buying an electrical component thats not traced back to China.. then try building any electrical system without using China... If you go to a UK contractor to build electrical parts for you they will almost certainly be buying the small components from China... if you want a PCB built you'll pay up to 3 times the cost for a UK company to build it, but still have Chinese sourced parts... There is a chance in using US parts and even subbing to a US company (something im looking at) but its not easy or anything like cost efficient.... Even as a UK manufacturing company I have to concede that certain parts HAVE to come from China for us to have any chance of competing with the Phillips, Dyson etc of this world.. Well said mate. I still don't understand why India or Latin america hasn't stepped up to the plate, in regards to component manufacture and assembly. They have the workforce, the space and the ability. I remember when I was studying engineering and all the tutors were former industry lads, who lost their jobs to a bowl of rice a day salary. European manufacture just cannot compete under present terms and hasn't been able to, for over 30 years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,093 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, mushroom said: Well said mate. I still don't understand why India or Latin america hasn't stepped up to the plate, in regards to component manufacture and assembly. They have the workforce, the space and the ability. I remember when I was studying engineering and all the tutors were former industry lads, who lost their jobs to a bowl of rice a day salary. European manufacture just cannot compete under present terms and hasn't been able to, for over 30 years. I've just had 13 large PCBs bullt in the UK for large carbon cleaning machines, its cost a small fortune but I used a local company who we are putting work their way. This gives us our first 10 products in this new line.... so keeping it all local allows us to touch and look at every stage whilst we iron out any issues... but.... when we go into production there is no way the electrical parts will stay here.... the boards will be £20-£25 in China... they are nearly £75 here....and the parts are Chinese... Those little boards in the AIR systems...under £4 from China (including carriage)... 3 UK prices all over £8 plus longer lead times???? Its mental... I've got them on 21 day delivery now, real good quality, our technical man has used this Chinese company for nearly 15 years... id love to buy everything in the UK, we build everything here, we employ UK staff etc...but its a falsehood if you think you can avoid Chinese parts in electrical manufacturing... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 20,363 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) I'm old enough to remember when we built ships, railways, mined coal, produced goods that were the envy of the world, and still, just, had an empire. Im old enough to remember when an insult to thick or stupid people was "as far back as the Chinese". Im old enough to remember when we worked for a living, and thought being on benefits was a shame, not a way of life. We saved up to buy what we wanted, or did without. Now it's the throwaway society, the buy it on credit society, the must have the latest gadget society.......and those inscrutable Chinese are only too willing to pander to our whims. So, who's to blame ? Cheers. Edited September 23, 2021 by chartpolski 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,176 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Try buying an electrical component thats not traced back to China.. then try building any electrical system without using China... If you go to a UK contractor to build electrical parts for you they will almost certainly be buying the small components from China... if you want a PCB built you'll pay up to 3 times the cost for a UK company to build it, but still have Chinese sourced parts... There is a chance in using US parts and even subbing to a US company (something im looking at) but its not easy or anything like cost efficient.... Even as a UK manufacturing company I have to concede that certain parts HAVE to come from China for us to have any chance of competing with the Phillips, Dyson etc of this world.. I completely understand that mate, what I mean is, instead of spending 20 billion quid on submarines our governments should be spending 20 billion quid on creating the conditions domestically so that economics don’t dictate you have to go to China. No money to China, money stays at home and everyone can still function. We used to make stuff and I’m sure we could do again if the political will was there. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lenmcharristar 9,167 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, WILF said: I completely understand that mate, what I mean is, instead of spending 20 billion quid on submarines our governments should be spending 20 billion quid on creating the conditions domestically so that economics don’t dictate you have to go to China. No money to China, money stays at home and everyone can still function. We used to make stuff and I’m sure we could do again if the political will was there. Putting the great back in britain, but leave the divisive unions out of it this time or it will collapse again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,093 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, chartpolski said: I'm old enough to remember when we built ships, railways, mined coal, produced goods that were the envy of the world, and still, just, had an empire. Im old enough to remember when an insult to thick or stupid people was "as far back as the Chinese". Im old enough to remember when we worked for a living, and though being on benefits was a shame, not a way of life. We saved up to buy what we wanted, or did without. Now it's the throwaway society, the buy it on credit society, the must have the latest gadget society.......and those inscrutable Chinese are only too willing to pander to our whims. So, who's to blame ? Cheers. Couldn't agree more... I'm not old enough to remember "the good old days" but am old enough to realise British industry is a must... Hence we build everything, we employ people to build it, we have a small production line and another 2 lines coming by the end of this year (more people, more expense but I can say and mean it...Made in Britain). But..... you can not buy small electrical parts without the Chinese involved somewhere... thats it!! It might only be penny parts, but they've got that bit wrapped up... I've been asked a few times now about taking production to the far East, its cheaper, no over heads etc.. but that defeats the object to me..... I honestly believe if the little companies can keep production here, we will grow and grow... if we buy small parts from China so be it... the lions share is still firmly in the UK 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,093 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, WILF said: I completely understand that mate, what I mean is, instead of spending 20 billion quid on submarines our governments should be spending 20 billion quid on creating the conditions domestically so that economics don’t dictate you have to go to China. No money to China, money stays at home and everyone can still function. We used to make stuff and I’m sure we could do again if the political will was there. Mate I agree... My point, abd its selfish in many ways...is we moan about everything in the UK that is out of our control, but somethings are.... there a thousands of small companies that have their products made in China, then flog them in the UK... on a smaller scale than Submarines and Helicopters, if we invest back into small to medium sized manufacturing we can build product here again ...it can be done.... ok the small parts will be purchased from China, but on our 3 main products every other component is purchased in the UK, with a couple of bits in Germany (fans, Germans make the best fans!! Lol).... The government have grants and schemes available, there are ways to improve our industries...but Charts point of throw away and quick fix is the same here...its easier to send a build manual to some sweat shop in Taiwan and stick a label on it when it arrives back in blighty...lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,176 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Couldn't agree more... I'm not old enough to remember "the good old days" but am old enough to realise British industry is a must... Hence we build everything, we employ people to build it, we have a small production line and another 2 lines coming by the end of this year (more people, more expense but I can say and mean it...Made in Britain). But..... you can not buy small electrical parts without the Chinese involved somewhere... thats it!! It might only be penny parts, but they've got that bit wrapped up... I've been asked a few times now about taking production to the far East, its cheaper, no over heads etc.. but that defeats the object to me..... I honestly believe if the little companies can keep production here, we will grow and grow... if we buy small parts from China so be it... the lions share is still firmly in the UK Do you reckon Britain is going to have to cut costs for firms at some point ?…..it can’t keep up the hurdles and costs now it has left the EU institution can it ? Going to need to be leaner and meaner than that long term surely ? The £8 part wouldn’t matter as much if the lower costs compensated for it would it mate ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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