what came 1st the grey wolf or the dog?

[sandymere 8,260]

It would appear that they both may have come from a common ancestor that is now extinct.  

Genome Sequencing Highlights the Dynamic Early History of Dogs

JOURNALS.PLOS.ORG

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Author Summary The process of dog domestication is still poorly understood, largely because no studies thus far have leveraged deeply sequenced whole genomes...

 

 

[MagyarAgar 88]

Interesting study.
Funny that they mention that the grey wolf went through a genetic bottleneck can not imagine where that may come from.

But generally I was under the impression, that it is relatively well established that dogs do not come from (todays) grey wolfs, but from an extinct subspecies of wolfs?
This study seems to support this conclusion.

Edited August 2, 2021 by MagyarAgar

[NorsePagan 22]

The grey wolf ... http://exhibits.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/larson/canis.html

[sandymere 8,260]

2 hours ago, MagyarAgar said:

Interesting study.
Funny that they mention that the grey wolf went through a genetic bottleneck can not imagine where that may come from.

But generally I was under the impression, that it is relatively well established that dogs do not come from (todays) grey wolfs, but from an extinct subspecies of wolfs?
This study seems to support this conclusion.

Indeed it would suggest the there was an extinct ancestor and that as man and dogs formed their bond the previous the greater diversity of wolves were out competed by this new" joint super" predator to the point of extinction. 

[mushroom 12,352]

Does it matter? I find this conversation daft. It's been debated for years and years and the simple consensus (that everyone agrees on) is dogs are Lupids, so the same family branch as wolves. Which species they came from will never be answered. Imo (and it means sweet fa because I'm not a paleolithic veterinary expert) is probably all species of wolf have given rise to dog breeds and then the descendents have interbred over the millennia to get where we are. Same as humans

[sandymere 8,260]

20 hours ago, mushroom said:

Does it matter?

No but does that matter?

Having an interest is enough for me, if i learn something that's reason enough. This research gives evidence to when dogs evolved and that they likely all came from one ancestor rather the evolving in different places as convergent evolution, which has been on school of thought.

[Black neck 15,161]

14 minutes ago, sandymere said:

No but does that matter?

Having an interest is enough for me, if i learn something that's reason enough. This research gives evidence to when dogs evolved and that they likely all came from one ancestor rather the evolving in different places as convergent evolution, which has been on school of thought.

He also said ud gone down hill sexualy like

[mC HULL 10,411]

21 minutes ago, sandymere said:

No but does that matter?

Having an interest is enough for me, if i learn something that's reason enough. This research gives evidence to when dogs evolved and that they likely all came from one ancestor rather the evolving in different places as convergent evolution, which has been on school of thought.

So the galago is related to the saluki then make ya mind up mate  

[mC HULL 10,411]

7 minutes ago, Black neck said:

He also said ud gone down hill sexualy like

Blackys back tell a friend

[Black neck 15,161]

6 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Blackys back tell a friend

Nobody wants 2 hear black neck no more the want mC I'm chopped liver

[mC HULL 10,411]

29 minutes ago, Black neck said:

Nobody wants 2 hear black neck no more the want mC I'm chopped liver

Well Its been dull without ya  

[chartpolski 20,378]

I once put up a post "Are Pures Really Pure" ? Relating to Deerhounds and Greyhounds.

Deerhounds of course had an influx of greyhound blood, sanctioned by the kennel club, ostensibly to prevent them becoming to "cloddy" and becoming undishinguisable from Irish Wolfhounds. But long before, when the invention of the sporting gun meant their job of coursing and catching deer became obsolete, there was in addition of "nose" from various other breeds, to enable them to track wounded quarry.

The Greyhound, as we know had bull blood added in the 1800's by Lord Orford to his coursing dogs, supposedly where the brindle in greyhounds originated.

The Irish Wolfhound is a completely invented breed, in the 19th century by crossing Deerhounds, Great Danes, mastiffs , etc, and has no relationship to the Wolfhound of old.

The Galgo has had greyhound added, to increase speed, as has the Saluki, since the popularity of Saluki racing in the Middle East, and we know Arabs have come over here and paid daft money for coursing dogs to add to their Salukis.

The Borzoi almost died out after the Russian revolution, and was resurrected by using foreign imports and local breeds.

I could go on, but I'm sure we get the drift.

So, the point I'm making is none of them are "Pure", no matter what DNA or Wikipedia tells us

Cheers.

[mushroom 12,352]

2 hours ago, sandymere said:

No but does that matter?

Having an interest is enough for me, if i learn something that's reason enough. This research gives evidence to when dogs evolved and that they likely all came from one ancestor rather the evolving in different places as convergent evolution, which has been on school of thought.

Fair enough and to clarify, I wasnt calling this thread and/or your posts daft. I meant the debate in general. It will never be proven which, what, where

It's like saying birds are related to dinosaurs. Ok which one? We will never know.

What I'd really like to know is why haven't other large social predators been domesticated? Hyenas for example. Surely, if the camp fire theory holds any water. Hyenas would defo want to be around human settlements for the same reason the theory says wolves did.

[sandymere 8,260]

9 minutes ago, mushroom said:

Fair enough and to clarify, I wasnt calling this thread and/or your posts daft. I meant the debate in general. It will never be proven which, what, where

It's like saying birds are related to dinosaurs. Ok which one? We will never know.

What I'd really like to know is why haven't other large social predators been domesticated? Hyenas for example. Surely, if the camp fire theory holds any water. Hyenas would defo want to be around human settlements for the same reason the theory says wolves did.

Perhaps at a guess because wolves have similar hierarchy to ourselves, age related, whereas hyenas have an inherited hierarchy. The larger predator's such as big cats would be to dangerous.

[mushroom 12,352]

24 minutes ago, sandymere said:

Perhaps at a guess because wolves have similar hierarchy to ourselves, age related, whereas hyenas have an inherited hierarchy. The larger predator's such as big cats would be to dangerous.

Not a bad answer and I probably agree. Still while sticking with your point.... The innate human aggression/avoidance in wolves should also prevent domestication

See what I mean about the debate? It just throws so many questions, rather than answers. Wouldn't the more placid/smaller wolf species be the better option? If so why do dogs have grey wolf DNA? How the fuuck did someone have the balls to stroll up to a grey wolf and say "here boy have a meaty bone"