Bit of a quandary

[BenBhoy 4,706]

4 minutes ago, shovel leaner said:

that’s for the police to decide

 Exactly mate. That's why I wouldn't be grassing on him & why I offered some advice with my referee refusal. 

None of us are whiter than white, I've made mistakes etc. 

[Longshanx 832]

Stav and I were only talking about the samething on Saturday while out. Saying how having a FAC/SGC makes you think before doing something stupid and getting into a brawl with the local d!ckhead after a few to many. It certainly calmed me down (along with the Mrs I'd rather face a copper than her when I got home after being locked up) 

I wouldn't jeopardise my certs for anything. 

My mate asked if he could put his name in my perm so he didn't have to pay the shooting club membership fees, I politely told him no and it doesn't work like that. Hes a sensible fella and understood when I explained. 

[Dervburner 2,548]

10 hours ago, shovel leaner said:

Just being devils advocate here . People grow up , and people change as they get older and think of consequences. 
         For my part I got into some violent scrapes when I was younger. This is before CCTV in town centres . So I never got a police record. When I got my shotgun certificate I fell in love with shooting. I wouldn’t do anything to jeopardise my shooting. “Have one more pint for the road “? No chance . Any form of physical confrontations , have to be , you are backed in a corner with no other option . I honestly believe that my shooting made me  responsible , and behave myself . Would I sign his certificate...... ? No . Should he be denied one , that’s for the police to decide.

True enough, the bloke who never made a mistake never made anything.

[Alsone 789]

On 01/06/2021 at 21:38, shovel leaner said:

 Should he be denied one , that’s for the police to decide.

I agree but how can they decide if they don't kow the full facts? 

If this guys history is in the past and he's responsible now then maybe. The OP didn't make it sound like that. 

It's a fine line between being a grass and being responsible and protecting yourself and others from someone unsuitable. Many say they wouldn't do anything to jeopardise their cert, but that's exactly what you're doing if you let someone irresponsible get one. Firearms Incidents only lead to more restrictions and a possible total ban for everyone.

The line here comes on the persons history. Long time in the past, fine. Recent incidents or current irresponsibility, duty to ensure the police have all the facts.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Alsone

[shovel leaner 7,648]

31 minutes ago, Alsone said:

I agree but how can they decide if they don't kow the full facts? 

If this guys history is in the past and he's responsible now then maybe. The OP didn't make it sound like that. 

It's a fine line between being a grass and being responsible and protecting yourself and others from someone unsuitable. Many say they wouldn't do anything to jeopardise their cert, but that's exactly what you're doing if you let someone irresponsible get one. Firearms Incidents only lead to more restrictions and a possible total ban for everyone.

The line here comes on the persons history. Long time in the past, fine. Recent incidents or current irresponsibility, duty to ensure the police have all the facts.

If nobody is willing to give him a reference and if he’s got a police record of recent irresponsible or violent behaviour then he won’t ( or shouldn’t) be granted a certificate. No need to contact them.

         We all have our own moral code , and I for one wouldn’t be able to look the guy in the eye again if I’d been on the phone and bubbled him to the FEO . Remember he is a friend , ok a bit of a prick but still a friend . The police are very good at keeping records, ask anyone who has a DBS , they can Chuck up 30 year old driving convictions.

 

[BenBhoy 4,706]

3 minutes ago, shovel leaner said:

We all have our own moral code , and I for one wouldn’t be able to look the guy in the eye again if I’d been on the phone and bubbled him to the FEO . Remember he is a friend , ok a bit of a prick but still a friend .

Spot. On. 

[Alsone 789]

2 hours ago, shovel leaner said:

If nobody is willing to give him a reference and if he’s got a police record of recent irresponsible or violent behaviour then he won’t ( or shouldn’t) be granted a certificate. No need to contact them.

         We all have our own moral code , and I for one wouldn’t be able to look the guy in the eye again if I’d been on the phone and bubbled him to the FEO . Remember he is a friend , ok a bit of a prick but still a friend . The police are very good at keeping records, ask anyone who has a DBS , they can Chuck up 30 year old driving convictions.

 

Might not be his record but his recent conduct that's the issue and if the police aren't aware, he gets a certificate as his record is in the past and considered spent when he's still a prick and thus a risk currently.

TBH if he's such a prick I wouldn't want him as a friend anyway. Why would you want to hang out with someone who's going to embarrass you or land you in trouble either directly or by association?

Apart from the issues he might cause you generally, it only needs you to all be out down town on a drunk night out, all messing around pushing each other, hoping benches etc as you walk home, he starts a fight with someone, and the police get called and it's a group of lads causing trouble based on the cctv showing the group messing around. OK he's probably only the one going to get arrested, but if all your details get taken and it flags on the PNC you're a firearms holder, and the cctv shows you as a part of a group "causing trouble", acting irresponsiblly, it's potentially going to cause you issues as you were seen as being part of a group fighting / starting trouble. Not saying you're going to lose your cert, probably won't, but it's not going to look good to the FEO next visit assuming he doesn't make a special one.

[Stavross 13,711]

They say you can choose your friends but not your family, this isn’t always true 

I have a “mate” and a long time ago I made a promise to a family member of his before they died and I would never go back on that promise, sometimes I look at him and think “ what the fu*k am I doing with you” but a promise is a promise and although we are very different people trusted friends are not easy to come by,( dickhead or not )  he has asked me on numerous occasions to sign grants and renewals and I have refused every time, he now understands why and is fine with that, if firearms do their job properly and if he’s been a naughty boy and this comes to light without him telling them, that’s the end of his application, it’s down to firearms to make the decision as to if he’s suitable or not, when I applied a long time ago now, I was granted even with a history with the police and it changed my life, I’d like to think I’d never do anything to jeopardise my FAC, it could change his life, just not with your name on the application

[BenBhoy 4,706]

Aye he does have a record & some of it for scrapping & just being daft (he once threw a coppers hat off the pier in Llandudno!) 

I've been up front with him as to why & he understands. He's still applying & I've stressed to just be honest. Let he law do their own job & make up their own mind.